[Oscar]

At this low of a price-point, no one knows what's in them, lol.

Of course they are all labeled 6010, but let's see how they run. Time to dust off the video camera....

[Oscar]

Just looking at the red 6010's I already found some physical differences compared to my other 6010s. Therefore I will create a new thread for this 'ultimate 6010 showdown!'

I will be doing detailed measurements as part of my SMAW electrode forensics/investigatory services.


3/32":

• HYW
• Lincoln 5P+
• Anchor
• Best Welds
• Blue Demon
• Böhler Fox

1/8":

• HYW
• Lincoln 5P+
• Lincoln 6P+
• Best Welds
• Böhler Fox

5/32":

• HYW
• Böhler Fox

the truth will be revealed!

[TraditionalToolworks]

Just looking at the red 6010's I already found some physical differences compared to my other 6010s. Therefore I will create a new thread for this 'ultimate 6010 showdown!'

Burn baby burn!

[Spartan]

TTW - So which of those are the rods you bought?

[TraditionalToolworks]

TTW - So which of those are the rods you bought?

I think the 3 red ones, 4th from the left.

The batch on the far right look kind of like my Lincoln 6011 Fleetweld 180-RS, but I'm pretty sure those are 6010 per Oscar's comment.

[Spartan]

TTW - So which of those are the rods you bought?

I think the 3 red ones, 4th from the left.

The batch on the far right look kind of like my Lincoln 6011 Fleetweld 180-RS, but I'm pretty sure those are 6010 per Oscar's comment.

Good to know. And, still looking at that pic, I'm not even going to ask why a vendor would dye their flux blue. But probably makes me glad my gut instinct to avoid Blue Demon rods or consumables has been correct.

[Oscar]

Just kidding, not gonna do all that testing.

The rods are indeed 6010 and run any other 6010 I have.

Although i do have to say, my beads don't look as smooth as TTW's bead with the same rod. Mine are definitely "rippley" like 6010 is expected to be. I guess it's just the angle perspective that makes them look smooth in TTW's pic.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Although i do have to say, my beads don't look as smooth as TTW's bead with the same rod. Mine are definitely "rippley" like 6010 is expected to be. I guess it's just the angle perspective that makes them look smooth in TTW's pic.

Maybe he only counterfeited the rods he sold me?

[Oscar]

Although i do have to say, my beads don't look as smooth as TTW's bead with the same rod. Mine are definitely "rippley" like 6010 is expected to be. I guess it's just the angle perspective that makes them look smooth in TTW's pic.

Maybe he only counterfeited the rods he sold me?

I'm thinking it would have to do with the arc force difference between the two machines. I used my Invertig 400 with 250% arc-force as I usually do with 6010. But I reckon most other TIG welders that also do stick (but with no arc force setting) probably have something like 20-50%? Does the manual specify what it is preset at?

[TraditionalToolworks]

I'm thinking it would have to do with the arc force difference between the two machines. I used my Invertig 400 with 250% arc-force as I usually do with 6010. But I reckon most other TIG welders that also do stick (but with no arc force setting) probably have something like 20-50%? Does the manual specify what it is preset at?

Keep in mind, I have no Arc Force on the Primeweld, nor do I have Hot Start, so I don't have many settings. With that said, it did seem to have enough power to burn the rod without having it stick. No guarantees on my welding technique, but I did use a whip-n-pause. AFAIK, it was a similar technique to what I used on the 6011 bead running on the edge of 1/2" plate in the OP.

Not trying to deceive anyone, but even I would agree looking at those front beads, the ripples look pretty tight, similar to how 7018 looks. But I can assure you that it ran nothing like 7018 and smelled like cellulose rod. If I get a chance I'll run a couple rods when I get time and see if spacing out the whip-n-pause doesn't cause the freeze to make the bead look more like 6010.

[Oscar]

I'm thinking it would have to do with the arc force difference between the two machines. I used my Invertig 400 with 250% arc-force as I usually do with 6010. But I reckon most other TIG welders that also do stick (but with no arc force setting) probably have something like 20-50%? Does the manual specify what it is preset at?

Keep in mind, I have no Arc Force on the Primeweld, nor do I have Hot Start, so I don't have many settings.

Yes I realize you don't have the settings to adjust, but what I was getting at is the the machine more than likely does have one arc-force setting, that is ultimately non-adjustable by the end user, inherent to the programming somewhere inside the circuits of the machine, not an actual button/switch.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Yes I realize you don't have the settings to adjust, but what I was getting at is the the machine more than likely does have one arc-force setting, that is ultimately non-adjustable by the end user, inherent to the programming somewhere inside the circuits of the machine, not an actual button/switch.

Yes, agree, and I make no qualms about the Primeweld, I myself was amazed it could even run the 6010 rod. Enough that I had to order some and test it myself. I don't think my Everlast will run it and it does have an Arc Force setting.

However the inverter handles the rod in the Primeweld, it's got enough to run cellulose. That in itself is pretty amazing. I would normally use 6011 rod, just because I have it and more so I don't tend to weld stick very often, but I do some and have done a few projects with it. I feel it's good to have in your bag of tricks as it's so simple...a stinger with a rod and a ground clamp. Plus, 1/8" rod is capable of doing some pretty heavy work given about 125 amps of welding current. In the case of 6010 and 6011 you can weld 5/32" rod at that current without issues.

[Oscar]

This was using my Pro Pulse 220MTS, which is not rated for 6010.

AF=250%: Ran well, very slight whip-n-pause, but for all practical purposes straight drag.
AF=0%: didn't run well at all, had the arc snuff out a few times.
AF=50%: Ran ok, arc was stable, but not as good as with 250% A.F.

Back-2-back pics, mine, followed by TTW's beads:





All of mine were with the same 1/8" 6010s that TTW ordered from Ebay. All of them had "ripply" characteristics at different AF settings. So yes, TTW has the only counterfeit 6010 rods that I know of.

[v5cvbb]

You are serious about 250% aren't you. I thought it was a typo. That's some serious dig. Have you checked current versus arc length? That would be interesting to see.

[Oscar]

You are serious about 250% aren't you. I thought it was a typo. That's some serious dig. Have you checked current versus arc length? That would be interesting to see.

It sounds more than what it is. It is not a percentage based off off the welding amperage. The Pro Pulse 220MTS/300/Invertig 400 go from 0 to 500% arc force, and the Inverarc 200TLP form 4 to 500% arc force. As you can imagine, there is no way the machine will output 5x the amperage if you are welding at any reasonable amperage. It's more like an arbitrary scale if you ask me. At 150% A.F, if you bury the rod you can get about +30-35% actual increase in amperage, roughly, IIRC. The fact that I have to add so much arc force (on the Pro Pulse 20MTS) is basically to compensate for the machine-- it cannot properly run 6010. The high arc force allows me to keep a very tight arc (tighter than I'd like) and that helps keep rod lit.

[v5cvbb]

Interesting Oscar. Kind of strange to use such a scale.

I've often wondered about my machines but never set up a camera on an amp meter to check.

[TraditionalToolworks]

So yes, TTW has the only counterfeit 6010 rods that I know of.

Glad we got that settled with your authoritative exercise.

I'll be able to sleep again at night knowing, well, nothing that I didn't already know...

You have way too much time on your hands, IMO. I was able to get a new seat mounted on my forklift, get new tags on my flatbed and do some cleanup at my yard around the sawmill.

[sbaker56]

Hmm, that makes me curious enough to try 6010 from -10 to +10 arc force and see if there are any variations I can notice, I don't remember much when I did try it last time.

[Oscar]

Hmm, that makes me curious enough to try 6010 from -10 to +10 arc force and see if there are any variations I can notice, I don't remember much when I did try it last time.

It all depends if you really try to bury the rod into the part, because arc force does nothing unless you are very very close and the machine detects a drop in arc voltage.

[sbaker56]

5p+ 6010 at around 95 amps, really should've marked a line so they came out less crooked.

top bead is -10 on the arc force, middle is 0 and bottom is +10

20200811_175959.jpg (71.27 KiB) Viewed 2569 times

[Poland308]

6010 usually runs best between 7 and 10.

[TraditionalToolworks]

5p+ 6010 at around 95 amps, really should've marked a line so they came out less crooked.

top bead is -10 on the arc force, middle is 0 and bottom is +10

Not for nothing but your 6010 beads look similar to mine. Now I'm not the only one with that counterfeit 6010 rod.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Did a bit more playing around today. My Lincoln Fleetweld 180 6011 runs way better than this cheap 6010 I got off ebay.

6010: (pretty fugly, all at 95 amps)


6010 root: (95 amps)


7018 fill over the root: (some undercut, run hot at 122 amps)


Another 7018, no 6010 root: (cold at 122 amps, looks not too bad)

[TraditionalToolworks]

As a wrap-up on this thread, my observation on the Primeweld's ability to weld various flavors of electrodes is pretty good after some of the testing I've done. The machine does seem to be able to handle most all electrodes, to my surprise, but I wouldn't say ideal for someone in need of the best stick welder on the market. It is quite a good TIG machine and I think that's the primary advantage. Being able to burn stick electrodes is icing on the cake for me. Yet the Primeweld is able to burn 6010, 6011 and 7018 which will be the primary electrodes I will run.

In some cases when I'm running 6010 I can see the material almost appearing to be gouged out as the arc moves along, and that may have to do with some of my settings. Certainly my stick welding abilities has area for improvement.

In watching one of Jody's videos last night I was reminded where stick welding typically falls apart, in one of the categories related to CLAMS.

CLAMS
----------
Current - what current you have your machine set to.
Length of Arc - How far the length of arc is from the material.
Angle of Electrode - The angle which you hold the electrode in relation to the material.
Manipulation - How you manipulate the electrode when welding.
Speed - The speed in which you move the electrode in relation to the puddle.

These are all things I need to practice on, just as anyone who wants to get better at stick welding. In a couple of my examples I have some undercut, that is exhibited by moving too fast, so it gets down to Speed. As seen above where I got some undercut when running a fill pass over a 6010 root, I realize that has to do with speed.

I haven't quite figured out current as well as I should, and being able to watch the puddle and tell if I'm too hot or not hot enough, I typically try to look at the result and determine if I was too hot or not...I will need to watch the puddle more closely...that is one of the biggest areas for anyone to improve, being able to watch the puddle and focus on it. Of course the puddle varies based on electrode type, as 7018 has a much different puddle than 6010, or even 7024, etc...

The bottom line is the Primeweld does pretty good for not having any adjustment for stick other than the current. This makes the CLAMS even that much more important. I've probably spent more time than warranted on stick welding for me, since I don't currently have any projects that I'm using stick welding for, so it's time to get back to my TIG which I do have projects I'm working on. Notably the welding cart for the Primeweld.

[Oscar]

The gouging is normal for 6010. Its part of the arc and its characteristic. One just has to work it and use it to their advantage to get really good (deep) fusion between the two parts.