Welding Tips and Tricks

Oscar wrote:I wouldn't say that is the case. I'm pretty sure it will weld up to whatever amperage the 120V circuit will allow before popping the breaker. I think that is just the rating Lincoln chose to specify, for whatever reason.

Yes, but it will ONLY do 80 amps of stick on 120v and 80 amps is marginally enough to burn 3/32" 7018, it really needs more like 90-92 amps in my experience.

JayWal wrote:That is if the 210 can even run 6010/6011. My Lincoln SW200 can't, so running stick in 120v is pretty useless. Lincoln claims it can run them, but mine runs for 5 seconds or so and the arc goes out. Really annoyed at that, I'm starting to like those cellulose rods more and more.

Interesting. Lincoln machines have typically supported cellulose in the past. In looking at the SW200 manual they don't mention it at all.

They don't in the 210MP manual either, however the 210MP has both Hot Start and Arc Force settings on the machine, and AFAICT neither are on the SW200.

Not clear if the 210MP has HF start on tig.

Interesting. I wonder why they would cap it like that, and not let the breaker be the cap. Oh well, ain't my machine, lol.

Alan, I was trying to tig braze a brass sprayer wand. Pretty thin stuff. Very fine line between blowing holes and rod not melting.

Oscar, I'll have to read up on Ieff and Imax. I have a different understanding, but you have me questioning myself.

v5cvbb wrote:Alan, I was trying to tig braze a brass sprayer wand. Pretty thin stuff. Very fine line between blowing holes and rod not melting.

Oscar, I'll have to read up on Ieff and Imax. I have a different understanding, but you have me questioning myself.

I honestly didn't find anything as explicit as I wanted. I had to go to the source and read the appropriate section of the NEC regarding the de-rating of conductors (630.11(A), 630.31(A)(2)), and the section with the equation for I1eff (630.12(B)). The odd part is that it doesn't actually tell you how they are connected; The I1eff section is "just there". I had to really study it and read between the lines and actually run numbers through the equation to see how the de-rating charts were actually derived. That's how I eventually made the connection, together with the description of the charts. Then I checked my own machines, the Invertig 221. I1max is 32A, I1eff is 12A, based on the electrical spec sticker on the machine.



So I said to myself, "it has to be one or the other", so I checked the amp draw at max power 220A. Sure enough, it's the higher one, I1max.

I suspected you were looking at things from the NEC side for sizing wire, which allows derating.

I've always thought of Ieff as RMS current, and Imax as peak current. Most of these inverter welders do not have proper power factor correction which can lead to high peak currents as the input circuits draw current from only the peaks of the incoming AC power. Does your HTP equipment list power factor?

Unfortunately no, none is specified. I think the 221 DV has PFC, but not sure.

Oscar wrote:Unfortunately no, none is specified. I think the 221 DV has PFC, but not sure.

Yes, the DV has PFC but the SV doesn't. This is per Jeff Nolan and the numbers they post for each model.

TraditionalToolworks wrote:

Oscar wrote:Unfortunately no, none is specified. I think the 221 DV has PFC, but not sure.

Yes, the DV has PFC but the SV doesn't. This is per Jeff Nolan and the numbers they post for each model.

From the memory of the welders I researched, the DV221 and the Fronius welders have PFC circuits.

v5cvbb wrote:I've always thought of Ieff as RMS current, and Imax as peak current. Most of these inverter welders do not have proper power factor correction

I find that most of the inverters seem to have it, although not all, but many of them do. When transformer machines were the norm it was an add-on, like on the Lincoln Idealarc 250s, and even on Miller arc welders, they seemed to have both models with and without it.

Most of the inverters these days are very low in power consumption in comparison. The most recent models seem to have PFC built into them.

With that said, I have nothing scientific to support what I just said, could or could not be so.

TraditionalToolworks wrote:

v5cvbb wrote:I've always thought of Ieff as RMS current, and Imax as peak current. Most of these inverter welders do not have proper power factor correction

I find that most of the inverters seem to have it, although not all, but many of them do. When transformer machines were the norm it was an add-on, like on the Lincoln Idealarc 250s, and even on Miller arc welders, they seemed to have both models with and without it.

Most of the inverters these days are very low in power consumption in comparison. The most recent models seem to have PFC built into them.

With that said, I have nothing scientific to support what I just said, could or could not be so.

The big transformer welders offered power factor correcting capacitor kits, I think, to correct power factor for the facility, not for the benefit of the welder.

I think the purpose of PFC on inverter welders is to make them more tolerant of lower line voltage, sag, and easier on generators.

I haven't seen many advertising PFC but I haven't been looking since I bought my welders.

What was the topic of this thread again? Oh stick welding or something like that. I guess it will circle around when Oscar receives his 6011 rod, so glad I don't have to/need to, stick weld anymore, but hey that's just me.

LtBadd wrote:What was the topic of this thread again? Oh stick welding or something like that. I guess it will circle around when Oscar receives his 6011 rod, so glad I don't have to/need to, stick weld anymore, but hey that's just me.

The current topic is which is your favorite pizza topping Oh and it wasn't 6011 I ordered, it was the 6010 rods.

Oscar wrote:

LtBadd wrote:What was the topic of this thread again? Oh stick welding or something like that. I guess it will circle around when Oscar receives his 6011 rod, so glad I don't have to/need to, stick weld anymore, but hey that's just me.

The current topic is which is your favorite pizza topping Oh and it wasn't 6011 I ordered, it was the 6010 rods.

Sausage and beef, light on the mozzarella please.

And no pineapples. Unless its a fruit pizza

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JayWal wrote:And no pineapples. Unless its a fruit pizza

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Can you guess where NOBODY eats Hawaiian Pizza?

Hawaii.

Spartan wrote:

JayWal wrote:And no pineapples. Unless its a fruit pizza

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Can you guess where NOBODY eats Hawaiian Pizza?

Hawaii.

Dole is spinning is his grave

Oscar wrote:

LtBadd wrote:What was the topic of this thread again? Oh stick welding or something like that. I guess it will circle around when Oscar receives his 6011 rod, so glad I don't have to/need to, stick weld anymore, but hey that's just me.

The current topic is which is your favorite pizza topping

'shroom man here. No EFFin pineapple on my pizza, that's disgusting.

My wife's pizza is the bestest on the planet, just like everything she cooks. Her client is coming back from Japan this Thursday, vacation is over for her...she cooks for them 5 nights a week, they send a driver to pickup their food...

Bunch of heathens here, pineapple and ham pizza is delicious, though admittedly that's the only combination I'd want pineapple on.

Honestly when I saw the 6010 bead picture I spent a good minute thinking "where's the 6010 weld?" too I can see 6010 characteristics in the stops and starts, but I don't think people are that skeptical of the machine running 6010, we just don't normally get that bead appearance. I haven't ran more than a few 6010 rods in months, so I am terribly out of practice, but this is more what I'm used to when I drag the rod.
Still though, it's my experience that 6010 tends to be a little smoother and cleaner than 6011 as you clearly experienced, which makes being able to run it a plus, although some 6010 optimized machines really seem to "dig" more with it, it can be as much of a hindrance as a help if you don't routinely use 6011/6010.


I've seen a video of an ESAB machine burning 1/8 7018 at maxed out at 120 amps on a 120v circuit, I'm not sure is the breaker was more than your typical 20 amp you'll see on 120v outlets though. Honestly in my limited experience I've found stick on 120v can be..janky and I think testing your machine on your circuits is the only real way to know sometimes, breakers can be old and trip early, machine's can be specced to draw 30 amps on 120v etc.

6-cheese (mozzarella,cheddar, Asiago, parmesan, Romano, provolone), 20 hour Smoked brisket, onions, and Frito pie w/ homemade chili using Wagyu ground beef.






It's a Texas thing.

Oscar wrote:6-cheese (mozzarella,cheddar, Asiago, parmesan, Romano, provolone), 20 hour Smoked brisket, onions, and Frito pie w/ homemade chili using Wagyu ground beef.


It's a Texas thing.

Wow, do you ship to Florida!

Won't be cheap, but yes.

Boy this thread went down the f#@ing $#!TTer fast...

I think it was headed in that direction when the vendor I bought the 6010 from got accused of selling me counterfeit rod anyway...

Not really - just a little light banter till Oscar gets his rods - then I'm sure we will get his take on them & he's man enough to admit if he's wrong ( as long as all that fatty food has'nt given him a heart attack ! ) - just gotta lighten up & go with the occasional jokes.

The plot thickens!

5/32" towards the left, 1/8" in the middle, but look at their 3/32" 6010 on the right! Hmm...





Looks like a different rod altogether.

Oscar wrote:Looks like a different rod altogether.

It does, I'll give you that...

Even the 5/32" and 1/8" look different color reds, I've read online that some brick red is different color, not sure how that plays out.

I would almost guess the lighter ones were 6011 looking at them, but they must be marked, right?

None of them look anything like those pizzas, so something seems fishy...do you think there's anchovies in these rods?