[Erik Mannie]

Tonight I welded two plates in two hours, completely focused on the tips that cj737 gave, particularly avoiding laying down cold welds. After welding the bead (only one bead on top from here on out), I would examine the other side to see if I could see any remains of the original seam. Spoiler alert: I had to go back and wash the welds on the other side a few times.

I took a lot of pictures. I would never post these online were I not headed to Hobart in a few weeks. Although anybody looking at these photos would be horrified, I am very happy because I feel like I got penetration.

The first picture is the typical "okay" fit up that I get. I did not have to add a "plug" tonight. I think a plug is when you have to add material to close a gap in fit up.

[Erik Mannie]

Like I said, it is imperative that I get an appreciable angle on the overhang. This is about what I am looking for.

[Erik Mannie]

To start off with, I started to weld the center tack believing that the gas was on. The gas was not on. I don't have the best vision, and I misread the Open/Close markings on the cylinder. I turned on the gas. I used 13cfh.

The center of the bead needed to be washed once I was finished with the weld, probably due to this initial "lack of shielding gas" mayhem.

[Erik Mannie]

After the 3 tacks, I still had my desired angle:

[Erik Mannie]

This TIG bead is actually good for me. Note the blemish in the center from when I didn't have Argon.

[Erik Mannie]

So I looked at the back side to see if I had achieved 100% penetration. Nope!

[Erik Mannie]

So I washed the weld on the top where it needed it. Mostly pure washing, but at some points I added some filler to make sure that I didn't induce undercut or burn a hole.

[Erik Mannie]

So here she is ready for grinding. Of the 16 plates that I have made so far, this is the best so far.

[Erik Mannie]

I will upload the pictures of the second plate. Spoiler alert: I burned a hole in it.

Here is another typical but questionable fit up.

[Erik Mannie]

Aha! Uploading that picture, I realize why I burned a hole where I did. The overhang piece had slipped into the grinding wheel and thinned out there.

[Erik Mannie]

No issues with the tacks:

[Erik Mannie]

Back side of tack welds:

[Erik Mannie]

I had the max Amps set to 85. I thought I was doing fine, and then I burned a hole:

[Erik Mannie]

When I went to bicycle frame building school, they touched on how to fix a hole. I have not been officially trained on how to fix a hole, but here is my repair part way through.

[Erik Mannie]

Here is my completed hole repair. I put a lot of heat into it, which you could call washing.

[Erik Mannie]

Here is another view of the completed hole repair. I really don't know what I am doing.

[Erik Mannie]

I took the part to the workbench and checked for warpage. It wasn't too bad, but I made some adjustments with the 4 1/2" pipe that I use to curve the plate, in a vise with a sledgehammer.

Here is the part after I was done welding it:

[Erik Mannie]

Final picture for tonight. Looking at the back of the weld, it looks like I achieved 100% penetration.

[Erik Mannie]

So how concerned should I be about the appearance of these welds? I will certainly be practicing a whole lot. Give me a good fitup on a flat sheet and it looks much better. I actually work at a (steel MIG) welding shop 4 hours/week, but I only do cutting, drilling and grinding. My boss is awesome!

By the way, my preflow is 1.0s and my postflow is 10.0s.

I still feel like cutting the two component pieces (main plate + overhang) on a plasma table might save time and get me better fitup.

These plates take so long to make. I don't mind if they turn out strong and within spec. They certainly are good practice!

[cj737]

All your pictures show a lack of clean metal to start with. I can see where you did some grinding of the mill scale, but you want bright, shiny, metal to TIG. Also clean the edges after cutting them.

I’ll renew my statement earlier about penetration: I can not see the requirement for 100% penetration on these parts. You do want solid penetration, but clear through to the backside, I don’t see that needed. If you butt the pieces together with a square cut, the filler is not likely to fill all the way thru unless you really hammer it with the heat, and that requires more experience than you currently have.

You have 2 choices as I see it; 1. Bevel the edges of the part so there is a V groove that you fill on one side only. You shuold be able to do that with 1/16 filler if you add enough and gently work the torch left-to-right. Or, 2. Make sure there’s a small gap (larger than you currently have) at fit-up to create the needed space for filler to reach through as you weld one side. Both of these techniques create 100% solid metal between the two parts.

To prevent yourself from burning through, weld 1/2 of the length of the part. Stop, reverse the part and weld the remaining 1/2 from the end to the center. That will give you just enough time to let the metal cool down, since at this point your experience is not letting you see the puddle about to erupt. (This comes with time and experience under the hood).

Don’t be disillusioned, you’re making progress. This stuff is not easy to do self-taught, alone in the shop. Until you can do it with someone experienced, looking over their shoulder and yours, bending this curve will take some time. Just don’t lose heart, you’ll continue to make progress.

I think anyone who has ever welded for a long time looks back at pieces and beads they did 1, 2, 5 or even 10 years ago and shrieks with horror. They say, “Who the FCUK welded that!” to themselves. Some, look back and see better work than they can do today as their eyesight or skills have now waned. Or they practice less. Welding is a skill that gets developed and dulls depending upon the effort you put in. Keep honing yours, you’re doing great.

[Erik Mannie]

All day, I will get to think about what you wrote at my day job. I will plan to make these adjustments.

For the next 5 days, I will have time to weld one plate a night. I will upload photos, but I will try not to drown you guys in these pictures.

It would be ridiculous for me to upload as many pictures as I have been for every single plate. I want to, but it seems like I would be hogging the server space and hopefully you guys wouldn't feel obligated to suggest improvements for every batch of photos that I upload.

And once I do get it, I promise to pay it forward. I am starting late; I am 52 years old. My eyes are already in need of 2X glasses for what I am doing here.

[cj737]

Just adding some additional advice about grinding the bevel in...

Using your angle grinder and a flap disc, grind the metal on both sides, ends and cut to clean shiny metal. And I mean clean. Then, take the grinder with the flap disc, and grind a bevel to 20-45*. It does not need to be perfect. Do this to both pieces.

Now, when you put the parts together, you shuold have a nice open V groove. You can use less heat to weld this as the thickness is much less. Just weld and tie the sides of the bead in well. I’d venture to say you could weld near 50 amps this way. As you weld, look at the front of the puddle, you shuold see a small “keyhole” forming. That’s a great indication you’re getting penetration and need filler. That keyhole forms at the leading edge as you push the puddle and run short of filler. Let your eyes see that and travel forward until you see it (about 1/8”). Then pause, dab, and travel. It’s a super easy technique to help you get solid welds and consistent beads.

Best of luck-

[Erik Mannie]

Just adding some additional advice about grinding the bevel in...

Using your angle grinder and a flap disc, grind the metal on both sides, ends and cut to clean shiny metal. And I mean clean. Then, take the grinder with the flap disc, and grind a bevel to 20-45*. It does not need to be perfect. Do this to both pieces.

Now, when you put the parts together, you shuold have a nice open V groove. You can use less heat to weld this as the thickness is much less. Just weld and tie the sides of the bead in well. I’d venture to say you could weld near 50 amps this way. As you weld, look at the front of the puddle, you shuold see a small “keyhole” forming. That’s a great indication you’re getting penetration and need filler. That keyhole forms at the leading edge as you push the puddle and run short of filler. Let your eyes see that and travel forward until you see it (about 1/8”). Then pause, dab, and travel. It’s a super easy technique to help you get solid welds and consistent beads.

Best of luck-

I just cleaned the two component pieces with a 4 1/2" 80 grit flap disk. This took the material down from .080" to approx .063". I did it as gently as I could. I had first gone over it with a SS wire wheel, and I can see that the wire wheel doesn't clean the parts enough. Next time I will try the wire wheel and some 40 grit emery cloth on a flat file (for rigidity). I found the flap disk to be pretty violent on the 14 gauge! I use the same flap disk with no issues at the MIG steel shop where I work, but the material is much thicker (1/8" on up). Any tips for using the flap disk on a 4 1/2" grinder on this .080" sheet steel?

I have been using 45 degree bevels, but I will change to "20 to 45 degrees".

I will soon be in a situation (possibly living in a stand up van at school) where it would be logistically easier to braze these parts. I have taken a class in brazing bicycle frames. One class that I am taking at Hobart in January is their oxyacetylene class which includes gas welding. That seems like an opportunity to dive back into brazing. So, generally speaking, can brazed welds be made as strong as TIG welds? My understanding is "yes, but with a larger fillet".

My first choice wasn't to live in a van at school, but I struck out big time trying to rent a shop or a house with a garage in Troy or Dayton, OH. The minimum lease was 12 months, and I wanted a 2 month lease. Another huge factor is that my wife runs a daycare in our house, and there is absolutely no O/A allowed anywhere on the property. Same with our storage unit. I could never find a place to keep an O/A setup. I don't have a car here in CA (only bicycles), so I want to store the O/A in this van. Also, I can bring back the tools that I buy in OH. The "van shop" will be specifically for making these plates. I will go away 8 weeks a year for the next 10 years, and I wouldn't want to spend 80 weeks without a shop! I really hope that these plates can be brazed!

[Erik Mannie]

Like I said, you guys and gals don't need to feel obligated to comment on my overload of pictures here. This just gives me a chance to analyze what improvements I need to make. Having said that, I deeply appreciate any input.

This is the .080" that went down to .063" after I overdid it with the flap disk:

[Erik Mannie]

Here are the tack welds: