Welding Tips and Tricks

Is it possible to use a carbon arc torch with a regular stick welder to braze copper water pipe? I need something that is flame-free to heat up a copper pipe and then braze it. The only carbon arc torches I've seen are used and cost $150! There's got to be a cheaper solution.

The best alternative I've seen:
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/thread ... h-electric

Apparently you can use a 3/16 gouging rod to run an arc through the copper pipe you're brazing (with the grounding clamp a few feet away on the same pipe).

Why do you need flame free? With a carbon rod, you will have an arc, and most likely some sparks. For truly flame free, look at induction heating. but it ain't cheap. You can get a system for joining pipes with a special swage tool. Again, it's not cheap, as you need a different die for every pipe size.

primuspaul wrote:Is it possible to use a carbon arc torch with a regular stick welder to braze copper water pipe? I need something that is flame-free to heat up a copper pipe and then braze it. The only carbon arc torches I've seen are used and cost $150! There's got to be a cheaper solution.

The best alternative I've seen:
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/thread ... h-electric

Apparently you can use a 3/16 gouging rod to run an arc through the copper pipe you're brazing (with the grounding clamp a few feet away on the same pipe).

Cheaper. Safer and smarter. Hire it done.

Pro press.
https://www.viega.us/en/products/innova ... press.html

Parker makes a version that will work for refrigeration as well.

weldin mike 27 wrote:Why do you need flame free? With a carbon rod, you will have an arc, and most likely some sparks. For truly flame free, look at induction heating. but it ain't cheap. You can get a system for joining pipes with a special swage tool. Again, it's not cheap, as you need a different die for every pipe size.

It may need to be used near wood. Induction is way too expensive so I thought the sparks would be a good trade off between cost and safety. Propane torches also might not get hot enough to braze. Requires mapp or oxy/acet which is too much money.

Poland308 wrote:Pro press.
https://www.viega.us/en/products/innova ... press.html

Parker makes a version that will work for refrigeration as well.

Seen it but seems too pricey.

If there is something you need to protect while brazing check out this product, it's a gel you can spray on surfaces to protect from the heat.

You tube videos of this in action

At the last Fabtech, this company had a booth and as a test they would spray this on their hand, and then apply a torch directly to the gel, I think it may have been Jody's video

Rigid makes a machine that might get you to low temp brass meltpoint.

Why not just use the copper epoxy glue if you can't use fire?

Some supply houses will rent you the tool if you buy fittings through them.
Edit
That gel works great I use it often.

If this is not a one time thing, you may want to look into a "resistance soldering" unit. Rigid makes this unit:

https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/rt100-elec ... dering-gun

This is one by a different company in use:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd83YI6aoOM

These things are really awesome, I have used one of the American Beauty units in a factory setting for soldering heavy copper connections and buss bars. No flames and they heat quickly and localize the heat well. Heats a 3/4" copper pipe to soldering temps in maybe 5-10 seconds, no sparks, no flames. It will reach red heat if you leave it a bit longer. I have never brazed with one though so I'm not sure how well it would work for that.

These are not super cheap, 500-600 bucks, but can simplify some jobs immensely.

Maybe not what you are looking for but interesting info to file away for reference. If you have limited use, you may be able to find a place that you could rent one from.

clavius wrote:If this is not a one time thing, you may want to look into a "resistance soldering" unit. Rigid makes this unit:

https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/rt100-elec ... dering-gun

This is one by a different company in use:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd83YI6aoOM

These things are really awesome, I have used one of the American Beauty units in a factory setting for soldering heavy copper connections and buss bars. No flames and they heat quickly and localize the heat well. Heats a 3/4" copper pipe to soldering temps in maybe 5-10 seconds, no sparks, no flames. It will reach red heat if you leave it a bit longer. I have never brazed with one though so I'm not sure how well it would work for that.

These are not super cheap, 500-600 bucks, but can simplify some jobs immensely.

Maybe not what you are looking for but interesting info to file away for reference. If you have limited use, you may be able to find a place that you could rent one from.

The best deal I've seen is this:

https://www.garrettwade.com/copper-pipe ... ol-gp.html

The problem with all of these is it's not a brazing solution since the temps are far too low, though obviously it works great for soldering. And of course it always costs a lot.

How does a heat gun compare to that tool?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MAB80EU/

(I have that unit)

I guess I can take the heat shrink fitting and bend it even more to create better coverage. Is that enough to at least solder with standard strength pipe wire?

----------------

That aside, it looks like the only reasonably cheap brazing option is by using a gouging rod in a welder at low amps. Can anyone say if this is practical?