Welding Tips and Tricks

Well, as previously mentioned in the plasma cutter thread (viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15602) I purchased the PrimeWeld 225TIGX as my first TIG box. I realize that it 's a cheaper option, but given the fact that this will just be a hobby for me coupled with the overall good reviews of the company and its products along with their customer support, I decided to opt for this product. We'll see how it goes. Alan seems to be happy thus far, so it can't all be bad. And even Oscar is toying with the notion of getting one himself!

Anyway, it was nice to see two large packages in my delivery box both yesterday (plasma) and today (TIG). Today's offering: So I loaded it up into the cart and took it to the workshop:

You might have noticed the additional package in the cart along with the 225X. That was the stuff from Jody: As if this forum didn't have enough WRT the building of a cart for one of these critters (I'm following Alan's build too), y'all now have another! I need to get onto developing a design for this box. However I don't like leaving projects unfinished (been there, done that, got the shirt - and too many times) so I'll hold off on that until I complete the plasma table. Extra motivation! I may cheat a bit tomorrow though and see how the 225X runs a rod. I seem to recall Alan doing that as well, but I digress. The problem is that I don't think that the 225X will run a 6010. I don't have any 6011s either. I say that I don't think it will because there was no mention of an E6010 in the manual nor from what I read online. Thus it seems a bit unlikely. 'Might be interesting to see how it does anyway ...

I don't have an Argon bottle, as I wanted to delay that process until I purchased a TIG welder. However I still can't do anything with the argon bottle thing just yet because I don't have a cart to put it on! lol

Oh well. I'll get to it. I try not to allow myself to feel rushed WRT these projects. Otherwise "the fun" element of the endeavor is lost and it becomes "like work." And that ain't good ... would likely turn someone right off, as we tend to get all we want of that while we are actually AT work. So whenever I sense a pseudo-pressure to get something done, I try to remind myself to just relax and enjoy the journey. And that works. For me. Well sometimes. lol

I'll keep y'all posted. Just wanted to share the news. It was exciting to see that TIG welder show up. After years of MIG and stick, I've wanted to try TIG and now that opportunity has arrived. Way cool!

Thank you for reading.

Definitely take your time. The more at ease you are on a project, the better it is likely to turn out.

Welcome to the club.
Looks like Primeweld changed their boxes. Mine was all glossy black with yellow lettering.


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av8or1 wrote:The problem is that I don't think that the 225X will run a 6010. I don't have any 6011s either.

It seems to run both, and I'm no MMA pro by any means. I was looking for some Lincoln 5P+ 6010, but my LWS only had 5P, so I passed. I hear 5P+ is the shizzle for 6010.

av8or1 wrote:I say that I don't think it will because there was no mention of an E6010 in the manual nor from what I read online. Thus it seems a bit unlikely. 'Might be interesting to see how it does anyway ...

Funny enough I almost didn't buy the welder because I didn't think it would run 6010/6011, but it does. Mike told me it will run them all depending on how experienced you are, and in fact told me he would refund me 100% of my purchase and pay for the shipping back if I was unhappy. That pushed me over the edge.

To my surprise it has run every rod I have thrown at it so far, including 6010. That is the only 6010 rod I've run BTW, so definitely no expert. See this thread: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15487 (1st pic is 7018 and 2nd pic is 6011).

Page 3 I run some 6010, but wouldn't you know I'm told it's counterfeit! (that thread is good entertainment. )

av8or1 wrote:I'll keep y'all posted. Just wanted to share the news. It was exciting to see that TIG welder show up. After years of MIG and stick, I've wanted to try TIG and now that opportunity has arrived. Way cool!

I'm pretty sure you'll like that machine a lot. I'm totally happy with mine, I'm sure you'll be with yours also.

DavidR8 wrote:Welcome to the club.
Looks like Primeweld changed their boxes. Mine was all glossy black with yellow lettering.

Yep, mine too!

Love the mailbox! I want one of them.

You're going to need that Argon bottle if you expect to TIG weld your welder cart.

TraditionalToolworks wrote:Funny enough I almost didn't buy the welder because I didn't think it would run 6010/6011, but it does. Mike told me it will run them all depending on how experienced you are, and in fact told me he would refund me 100% of my purchase and pay for the shipping back if I was unhappy. That pushed me over the edge.

Wait...who is Mike exactly? The owner of PrimeWeld or a rep or ... ? Does he have the authority to issue refunds there? I haven't contacted PrimeWeld directly, but I would like to learn more about the company and the folk who work there.

Well I'm not convinced that it'll run a 6010 yet, as that is a DCEP rod only, but I will approach it with an open mind. So we'll see. But dangit Alan! I need to finish the plasma table first, don't get me distracted!

Between the gantry and other projects I've run enough 6010 to know how it should weld. I only use Lincoln rods, but have laid beads with both the 5P and 5P+. I do prefer the latter. The former seems to need increased amperage to yield similar results. It also seems to lay down differently. I started with the 5P+ though, so it could be a law of primacy thing. That said, I do like the results from the 5P+ better and will only purchase that rod in the future. I took a punt on the 5P because it was all the supply store had on-hand at the time and I needed to finish some work on the gantry.

Yeah I watched your YouTube video as well. I sure as hell hope that you've sourced a welding jacket since then and are using a respirator. I commented on that video and gave you my recommendation for a good respirator that will fit underneath your helmet. Don't play around with that Alan, garb-up, mask-up then cover-up then use a fan if you don't have a fume extractor. I don't have one of those either, but a simple fan does wonders to disperse the fumes. And that's in addition to all of the other measures. Ok enough preaching...

av8or1 wrote:Wait...who is Mike exactly? The owner of PrimeWeld or a rep or ... ? Does he have the authority to issue refunds there? I haven't contacted PrimeWeld directly, but I would like to learn more about the company and the folk who work there.

I believe Mike is the owner and Dustin works for him, but I could be wrong. Mike is the owner.

av8or1 wrote:Well I'm not convinced that it'll run a 6010 yet, as that is a DCEP rod only, but I will approach it with an open mind. So we'll see. But dangit Alan! I need to finish the plasma table first, don't get me distracted!

I have only run DCEP on MMA. That's all I do, I don't have any AC rods, err, I take that back...the 6011 will run on AC, but I have never done that on any of my machines. I understand your skepticism, but it runs them. Please report back after you actually try it, not just from reading information online. The machine is not purported to even run any rod other than 6013 in the manual. I wouldn't expect them to refund a machine for that reason unless they told you prior to buying it, but dollars to donuts they would because that's the type of company they are and they want to make sure the customer is happy. They are not like Everlast, out to get your money and the deal is done. But they don't seem to have the same widespread issues as Everlast either. Maybe it's karma!

av8or1 wrote:Between the gantry and other projects I've run enough 6010 to know how it should weld.

Then by all means please report when you try it. I was running 1/8" rod at 92 amps. I picked that based on another user I know with a Primeweld in Wisconsin that ran both 6010 and 7018 on it before I did. I was questioned here if the rod I was running was even 6010 as my beads didn't look as the person thought they should. Claiming someone is selling counterfeit rod is really a stretch though, even they admitted it after thinking about it. Would love your opinion.

av8or1 wrote:I took a punt on the 5P because it was all the supply store had on-hand at the time and I needed to finish some work on the gantry.

I didn't want to punt on that, cause I have plenty of rod and really like 7018, just that 6010/6011 is more tolerant to rust/paint/dirt than 7018, and that's the entire reason to use it.

av8or1 wrote:Yeah I watched your YouTube video as well. I sure as hell hope that you've sourced a welding jacket since then and are using a respirator.

I beg your pardon? I have never posted a YouTube video on the Primeweld, maybe you watched another one I linked to. I have no videos on welding on YT, the only thing I have is pictures of my property and my old '46 Chevy Pickup mostly. You can see my channel at the same name I use here, or a full view of my property at "Konocti's Wigwam", but sorry, no welding video.

I don't have a respirator, but use a fan when I weld, even with tig. I try to only weld stick outside, but will do short sections in the garage with the door open and the fan blowing. That seems to keep it clear. I always wear leather sleeves when I stick weld, and one of those green Black Stallion FR shirts for tig. Not sure who you replied to, but it wasn't me. Maybe it was Alex Jordan, I've seen him weld without sleeves, but in a recent video he said he was going to get some sleeves to mig. I have also commented on The Fabrication Series channel, he often welds without protection, but if I could weld half as good as Justin does I probably wouldn't listen to people on YT either.

BugHunter wrote:Love the mailbox! I want one of them.

You're going to need that Argon bottle if you expect to TIG weld your welder cart.

Thank you, the mail center has paid for itself and then some via the convenience it provides.

Oh sure but I never had a plan to weld the TIG cart with a TIG welder. I'll likely just use the Century FCAW mini-me welder to do that job. Funny how the Century tends to be my go-to whenever I need something done quick-n-easy.

TraditionalToolworks wrote:I believe Mike is the owner and Dustin works for him, but I could be wrong. Mike is the owner.

Ah ok, thank you for the information. If I ever need to contact them I'll have a name to refer to when I do. Hopefully I'll never have the need.

TraditionalToolworks wrote:I have only run DCEP on MMA. That's all I do, I don't have any AC rods, err, I take that back...the 6011 will run on AC, but I have never done that on any of my machines. I understand your skepticism, but it runs them. Please report back after you actually try it, not just from reading information online. The machine is not purported to even run any rod other than 6013 in the manual. I wouldn't expect them to refund a machine for that reason unless they told you prior to buying it, but dollars to donuts they would because that's the type of company they are and they want to make sure the customer is happy. They are not like Everlast, out to get your money and the deal is done. But they don't seem to have the same widespread issues as Everlast either. Maybe it's karma!

Yeah the 6011 is used on AC most of the time, since it'll do AC and since there are so many of those tombstone style buzz-boxes out there. I might have come across the wrong/unintended way a bit here ... I wouldn't classify me as skeptical so much as "it does that? Really?" type of disposition. I'm not a professional welder either and don't pretend that I am. All I'm saying is that I've laid down enough of the 5P and 5P+ to know what they should sound, feel and look like in the end. And that's all. Nothing boastful therein, FWIW.

Don't get me started on the green stuff. I hear that you can ship your box in and have it repaired at their repair center, all on your dime. It'll likely end up being just that if I ever need anything done to it. Crossing fingers that I don't. I'll tell ya, the customer service and the fact that they put their number right out front on every document they generate was a key factor in my decision making, for both products. 'Just couldn't bring myself to risk another trip down the green path...once is enough.

TraditionalToolworks wrote:I didn't want to punt on that, cause I have plenty of rod and really like 7018, just that 6010/6011 is more tolerant to rust/paint/dirt than 7018, and that's the entire reason to use it.

Yeah that's correct. The 6010 is a more violent, deeper (typically) penetrating rod than the 7018, which is why I use it for the root and hot passes on anything that I consider structural. During my testing prior to welding the gantry, I found that the 6010 lived up to that reputation. I noticed that it did indeed have better penetration and once I learned its "happy noise" I attempted to replicate that each-n-every time I used it. It's happiest when it is the most violent. And I like that in a structural context. The 7018 when done right sounds like the mild sizzle of a fireplace on a winter's night. Just quite different. It too has excellent penetration, just not quite as good as the 6010. I realize that this is a bit of a blanket statement, however I would assert that the general notion holds true.

TraditionalToolworks wrote:I beg your pardon? I have never posted a YouTube video on the Primeweld, maybe you watched another one I linked to. I have no videos on welding on YT, the only thing I have is pictures of my property and my old '46 Chevy Pickup mostly. You can see my channel at the same name I use here, or a full view of my property at "Konocti's Wigwam", but sorry, no welding video.

Holy hell, I had you confused with another guy who posted a YouTube video after purchasing a 225X right about the same time that you appear to have and who also works in a garage with limited space. So I put 2-n-2 together and came up with 3. Apologies.

Alright Alan, I just *had* to track it down to see where I zigged when I should have zagged. The guy's name is actually Bruce, so yeah, not you. lol He ran a few beads in SMAW mode too. Anyway just for funzzies, here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scHEf0lphb8&t=1048s
Perhaps shoulda asked "are you the guy in that unboxing video?" prior to concluding that the two guys were one-n-the-same. lol

av8or1 wrote:Alright Alan, I just *had* to track it down to see where I zigged when I should have zagged. The guy's name is actually Bruce, so yeah, not you. lol He ran a few beads in SMAW mode too. Anyway just for funzzies, here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scHEf0lphb8&t=1048s
Perhaps shoulda asked "are you the guy in that unboxing video?" prior to concluding that the two guys were one-n-the-same. lol

How should I put this nicely...I don't like people doing something the first time and showing everyone how to do it on YT, and that's exactly what he does. If he learned and already knew how to do something, that's different, but in his case he's always doing something the first time. I have commented on his videos in the past to offer some advice, but don't watch them as there's not much for me to learn from him as he's learning. I have better use of my time, even if it's padding beads.

av8or1 wrote:Holy hell, I had you confused with another guy who posted a YouTube video after purchasing a 225X right about the same time that you appear to have and who also works in a garage with limited space. So I put 2-n-2 together and came up with 3. Apologies.

No worries...but just to say, that guy has so much space, if I had that much space I'd be looking for machines to fill it up.

I literally only have half of a 2 car garage and I have the half mostly filled with machines including 2 lathes, 2 mills, drill press, horizontal band saw, vertical woodworking band saw and my welding equipment. I hope to move one of the mills and a lathe out to the new shop when I can to get a bit more space but will leave my metalworking machines here where I live. I will mostly have woodworking machine at my lake property to build the home, but will have a lathe and a mill and most likely my green weenie welder for any repairs.

Av8tor - you might try some 6013 on DCEN. Your machine will run those quite nicely, and the beads will provide a very nice finish appearance. Set your machine to Stick, DC, then swap your leads. I bet you ditch the 6010 afterwards. Great penetration, easy restarts, light flux.

cj737 wrote:Av8tor - you might try some 6013 on DCEN. Your machine will run those quite nicely, and the beads will provide a very nice finish appearance. Set your machine to Stick, DC, then swap your leads. I bet you ditch the 6010 afterwards. Great penetration, easy restarts, light flux.

Hmmm...I may have to try that myself, but have just always used DCEP for all the stick rod I've run.

I find the 6013 a bit runny, especially for vertical up/down. I struggle enough with vertical up/down as it is, but the 6013 runs off like water...worse is overhead, but there are times one needs a hot shower! (found that out while experimenting under my flat bed )

DavidR8 wrote:Welcome to the club.
Looks like Primeweld changed their boxes. Mine was all glossy black with yellow lettering.

Thank you! Well the plasma did come in a black box with yellow lettering. I was expecting the same with the 225X but that wasn't the case...

Jerry,

This probably won't help you out much, but is a fair display of my crappy stick welding...

This is using my counterfeit 6010 rod I bought off ebay.

I soaked it in water, but this is the slag before I wire wheeled it.



After wire wheeling it. These are at about 95 amps, slightly hotter than I was using a couple weeks ago. Bottom 2 beads are not 6010, not sure what they are to be honest, probably 7018. Just a piece of scrap I had been padding beads on with some area left.



This is what the slag looks like dry, the person that questioned this wanted to see the slag before it was cleaned...the water soaked slag is not accurate. (I don't have a pic of this after wire wheeled. ) This is completely rusted mild steel, no cleaning, no prep at all, just dirty, rusty steel.

Hi Alan,

Thank you for sharing the pictures and feedback regarding your testing of the 225X in SMAW mode. Some of those beads don't look that bad actually, so don't be so hard on yourself. Even when done right 6010 leaves stuff that is more difficult to cleanup than say 7018 or even 6013. Personally I don't think you can know too much until you remove the slag, though it can tell you a few things such as how clean the surface was prior to the weld being laid down, etc. So keep at it, I don't think that you are too far away at all from being able to lay down decent 6010 beads. And I would avoid anything but Lincoln Fleetweld 5P+. That is my preference by far.

Well, as it turns out, mama (my wife-eee) wanted to work on her outdoor rocking chair this afternoon, so that meant that I had watch-the-lil-un duty all afternoon. Thus our son was in the outbuilding with daddy most of the day. I have no complaints mind you, 'just sayin'. We found ways to pass the time, mostly doing infrastructure type of tasks, ergo housekeeping. I did manage to fill most of the drawers in the tool cabinets that are on my MIG welding cart, so that was a good thing. That cleared a cubby hole of sorts so that he could climb up onto the workshop futon and put his face right next to the outlet of the wall-mounted A/C system I have installed. All to the good, I mean the day when mom-n-dad aren't cool anymore will come all too soon, so any time that I get with him now is a treasure. Projects can wait.

Anyway the point being that I didn't have an opportunity to test the 225X today, or even to unbox it really. I did however manage to take a few pictures of the specifications page in the manual. Here's the entire page:

So this is interesting: On 110V, the 225X maxes out at 120A but can draw a max input current of 46.3A when in SMAW mode. When on 220V the max output amperage is only 180A but the max input current drops to 38.1A. Well, now that I think about it I can understand that actually. The green box I have maxes out at 200A, but can only run on 220/240V. Duty cycle is a bit better also, but it's a green box and it's $1200+ more expensive. Thus the 225X is a bargain by comparison, especially with the level of customer service that the company appears to have.

Then there's this: Which in a way is even more interesting. Well, my plan is to run on a 30A breaker when on 110V and the 50A one that I already use for the 275p and CUT60 when on 220V. That'll work just fine...

Anyway FWIW. I may have an opportunity to run a few beads with the 225X tomorrow, but TBD. I want to remain focused on the plasma table until that project is finished. Still lots of little stuff to do on that one...

Yeah, I've gone through all that in the manual, but the problem is they don't tell you that 34 amps is Imax on 220v for tig, they do list it, but without seeing the label, all bets off, IMO. At least it was kind of agreed to previously here that the label was the definitive number.

Is the label on the back of the 225X different from the manual?

av8or1 wrote:So this is interesting:

specifications 2.jpg

On 110V, the 225X maxes out at 120A but can draw a max input current of 46.3A when in SMAW mode.

And they give you a pig tail with a 5-15 plug on it, that's a 15 amp plug?

av8or1 wrote:The green box I have maxes out at 200A, but can only run on 220/240V. Duty cycle is a bit better also, but it's a green box and it's $1200+ more expensive. Thus the 225X is a bargain by comparison, especially with the level of customer service that the company appears to have.

I think it's not just about how much amperage it draws, my green weenie draws 28 amps, and gives me 200 amps TIG or 160 amps MMA. So I theorize that the Primeweld can get 160 amps of MMA on 30 amps. (240v)

When you take all things into account, how can a 15 amp 120v plug stack up? It seems intended to pop the breaker as a 5-15R is the most common, and many run 20 amps on them. It's all about the wiring used as well. Very rare to see 40 amps or 50 amps on a 120v circuit in a home. However, to be realistic, it is intended to be able to run on 120v, hence the plug. But I'm just talking out loud.

av8or1 wrote:Anyway FWIW. I may have an opportunity to run a few beads with the 225X tomorrow, but TBD. I want to remain focused on the plasma table until that project is finished. Still lots of little stuff to do on that one...

Yeah, I need to get my cart tacked up. I started to weld the posts which was a mistake, I should have tacked it all up with the top frame and posts to prevent distortion. Doesn't look too bad, I measured things today, but I need to get the posts and frame tacked up before welding more on it. Easy to get distracted. (it did give me some time to think about it though )

Alan (and anyone else who is interested),

No time to reply, still in the workshop and need to head out to a box store to source some hardware to go on the plasma table. However I did take a break from that to test the 225X in SMAW mode.

Despite my inability to maintain a straight line today I found that the 225X can run a 6010 rod without a problem. Would it be my first choice? No. I'd have to opt for the green box assuming that it was still running. But it can do it without any of the issues that an inverter based box typically has with a 6010. There are a few other particulars with it that I didn't care for, but I'll report on that tonight. Gotta run.

Oh and the numbers on the label on the back of the 225X appear to match those in the manual, at least from a quick glance.

av8or1 wrote:Oh and the numbers on the label on the back of the 225X appear to match those in the manual, at least from a quick glance.

Yes, they kind of do, but it doesn't tell you exactly what 34 amps is for tig on 240v, and even despite that they tell you to use a 50 amp circuit. That actually makes sense as it can use up to 46.3 amps for MMA.

For 110v, they tell you use a 30 amp circuit, but how can that be? For TIG is can use 33.3 amps for TIG and 38.1 for MMA on 110v. To complicate matters even worse they provide a 5-15P on the pigtail, the most common plug in most homes. How many 30 amp circuits have you seen with a 5-15R for 110v?

My point is that the manual and the actual numbers don't really align with each other, but the definitive electrical usage is the label on the back of the machine. They can recommend anything they want in the manual, we need to keep in mind where it was made and where the manual was printed. The manual is pretty good, IMO, I don't mean to dis it. It has some pretty good info in it. This is no different between the manuals and labels on most machines. Just sayin'...

It's nothing to worry about...making sense out of this stuff is fruitless...

Yeah some of it sure seems kinda wonky if you ask me. I mean they recommend/tell-you-to use a 30A breaker on 110V but the machine can supposedly draw 48.6 in SMAW mode on 110V. The max output amperage in SMAW mode on 110V is reportedly 120A. If that's the case, how would you run a 7018 rod? I mean that's about where you typically start with the amperage on a 7018, though you could certainly go lower if you had a smaller diameter rod and were welding on thinner material. Then the recommended breaker is 50A on 220V when none of the max input current values for 220V are higher than 40A. Oh well. My plan is to do SMAW on 220V only and TIG on either, depending on my needs at the time. I suppose you could run a 6010 on 110V provided the amperage remained in the 90s or lower. Meh ... I'd do that only in a pinch, as Jody might say.