[Gdarc21]

Water cooled electrode holder not really practical but I have spent a ton of 12hr days melting 7016s into 3and a half diameter up to 6ft diameter pipe, all vert up 3 runs and then a cap, by smoko it's riggers glove inside the welding gloves. If he could get it to work, he might make some deutschmarks . It has its merits.

[Oscar]

I get that you are experimenting for fun, but this is almost as useful as Oscar's water cooled electrode holder for stick welding.

What, there is water cooled handle for stick welding, That would be gold though

There is only 1 in existence. Yes, I have it.

[tweake]

Yeah I hear ya, except cellulose rods are hard to find here in NZ, and the few places I found them were all 6010. A water cooled electrode holder is hillarious though

weldwell are the most common 6011 but they don't make them in 2.4mm.
usually 6010 is harder to find.

[tweake]

Cellulose rods are over rated. You would be just fine without them.

i still like them for welding through crap.
doing a job today where i wish i could use them, but i don't have small enough 6011 rods.
pleanty of galv, rust etc. thats what you get for making things out of left overs. using some 6012/6013 and its so-so.

also using some 312 rods on 1.6mm flat at 90 amps, but thats another story for another time.

[Gdarc21]

Hey Tweake, have you got a needle scaler?
Scale the absolute Ff$# out of it, blow the crap out with a air blower and weld. Gets ya out trouble, but makes feel dirty if you think too hard about it

[tweake]

Hey Tweake, have you got a needle scaler?
Scale the absolute Ff$# out of it, blow the crap out with a air blower and weld. Gets ya out trouble, but makes feel dirty if you think too hard about it

never actually tried the needle scaler. i think i have one somewhere..........

i just had to weld a piece together, hot rolled steel i think. no prep 6011 burn it in. good enough for the job at hand (prototype for a disassembly tool).
cellulose rods may be old school but they come in handy for maintenance guys.

[LAB80]

Yeah I hear ya, except cellulose rods are hard to find here in NZ, and the few places I found them were all 6010. A water cooled electrode holder is hillarious though

weldwell are the most common 6011 but they don't make them in 2.4mm.
usually 6010 is harder to find.

This is where I got my 6010's; https://weldingtechnology.co.nz/product ... -magmaweld

I did try and buy some weldwell 6011's in store a while ago, but they looked at me sideways and said they would have to order them in

[LAB80]

I tell ya what, this 6010 stuff is stroppy. I have been welding up a welding cart, and using 2.5mm box steel. Some of the fit up was.. shall we say.. sub optimal.

When filling in the gaps, its such a balancing act to not make a massive key hole. I'm on about 35 odd amps, and if I don't get the right speed and whippy action, it just blows open. Its fairly easy to do a dabbing thing to fill it in afterwards, but still, quite an art, and a lot of fun!

On some of the very large gaps I used that texas tig method, which is also quite fun but also semi tricky.

Also, a question; I have noticed that when I start a new rod, it seems very aggressive, but the shorter it gets the less... violent it gets ( I notice this mostly on restarts ). Is this normal ?

[tweake]

6010 is not really all that good for thinner material. that arc is so aggressive.
would use 6013, 7016/7018 instead.

[LAB80]

6010 is not really all that good for thinner material. that arc is so aggressive.
would use 6013, 7016/7018 instead.

What would you say thin material is ?

I do have some 7016 and 7018 I will experiment with tomorrow. I am not sure if I am imagining it, but it seems like there is a change of sound just before 6010 is about to blow a hole as well.

[Gdarc21]

I tell ya what, this 6010 stuff is stroppy. I have been welding up a welding cart, and using 2.5mm box steel. Some of the fit up was.. shall we say.. sub optimal.

When filling in the gaps, its such a balancing act to not make a massive key hole. I'm on about 35 odd amps, and if I don't get the right speed and whippy action, it just blows open. Its fairly easy to do a dabbing thing to fill it in afterwards, but still, quite an art, and a lot of fun!

On some of the very large gaps I used that texas tig method, which is also quite fun but also semi tricky.

Also, a question; I have noticed that when I start a new rod, it seems very aggressive, but the shorter it gets the less... violent it gets ( I notice this mostly on restarts ). Is this normal ?

Yeah it does get stroppy they are designed to blow through and leave metal. Make a nice keyhole and leave a nice root run at the same time. You are not using them for thier intended purpose. There is nothing wrong with that as long as you know. I once made a temporary gate with them for shits and giggles. They are great for apprentices........ we once had an apprentice invent a whole range of swear words when he broke 2 cardinal rules. 1) dont trust what your passed by someone else when you say 'hand me a gp' (6013) 1.5) always use please 2) if you cant read the scratched off writing on stick, dont use.

Too thin is maybe 2.5mm. Can be done....easily but if you gotta mig its usually better and quicker. You can get thinner sticks to go lower amps if needed though.
Everythings possible some things are just quicker or cheaper. On the day, use what you got.
It sounds more bass just before blow through on tube, i expect its sounding in the tube more prior to falling through.
Ultimately sometimes there are better sticks/ processes for what you are doing. Thats knowledge. You can read that.
Knowing when you can get away with it or its just costing time/money. Thats wisdom. Thats a by product of melting stuff and having fun.

[Louie1961]

I tell ya what, this 6010 stuff is stroppy.

Yep. As I said, I think 601X rods are a bit over rated. 6010 is predominantly used for pipe welding, where its aggressive qualities can be used to full advantage. Outside of pipe, I am not sure why anyone uses it. Yes, it can burn through lots of crap, but so can my grinder. Jody did some interesting videos on using 6011 for general fabrication, but honestly, it takes some serious skill to produce an aesthetically pleasing bead with 6010 or 6011. For general hobbyist fabrication, 7018, 6013, or 7014 are all more than adequate and easier to run. All three can be treated as drag rods if needed. 6013 was DESIGNED to work on thinner metal. It was the "go-to" for sheet metal fabrication before MIG became widely available. All three of these rods require fairly clean metal and good joint design, since none of them penetrate aggressively. But for banging together some square tubing, 6013 is hard to beat, assuming you don't have a MIG

[LAB80]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions

I am wondering, why do they need 6010's high penetration for pipe welding? It seems most pipes are welded open root.. Couldn't any old electrode penetrate fully in this circumstance?

Or is it this fast freeze business which part of the appeal?

Cheers

[tweake]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions

I am wondering, why do they need 6010's high penetration for pipe welding? It seems most pipes are welded open root.. Couldn't any old electrode penetrate fully in this circumstance?

Or is it this fast freeze business which part of the appeal?

Cheers

cellulose rods where the first rods to be invented. they got used for everything. rutile rods came along and that replaced cellulose rods for thinner material or for nicer finishes.
then basic (low hydrogen) rods to reduce hydrogen cracking.
i don't do pipe welding but i suspect the fast freeze nature means its a lot easier to do root passes and get the right weld profile inside the pipe.
imho also speed. tight gap, down hill and go fast.

these days a lot of pipe is high tensile and root passes are done with 7016. i've tried it (jody has a video on it) and its slow.

for me cellulose is a good maintenance rod, especially when you can't get the grinder into that tight space.

[tweake]

to add:

why not mig?
at the moment i'm doing a few small projects for work. mig is fine but for doing all of 12" of weld its a pain to set up and dial in. especially multiple thicknesses.
i've just been using my cheap little stick welder. also using it as an excuse to try a few new rods and get some stick time (my god i'm rusty).

[Gdarc21]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions

I am wondering, why do they need 6010's high penetration for pipe welding? It seems most pipes are welded open root.. Couldn't any old electrode penetrate fully in this circumstance?

Or is it this fast freeze business which part of the appeal?

Cheers

Good question.
I have always believed it was the aggresive arc. On pipe it is very forgiving with peno. If make a keyhole, and by now you have seen how easy a keyhole is to make with them, then you know its penetrating. The faster freeze and less slag is good too.
I personally do all pipe work in shop with tig root or 16tc Wia electrodes. They are 7016s. 7016 caps or Sometimes fluxcore caps. On site I use 7016s exclusively. Side note never use flux core mig for root. Can and should, two different things. I hear alot about 6013s but I find them unpredictable. It is worth investing in yourself to spend the time trial and error, find what works. I personally only keep wia 16tcs (7016) and ferrocraft 21(7014) they always leave industry quality results and both are standard for heavy industry and construction in Aust and probably New Zealand as we share alot of AsNz standards. I hope this helps.
Tweake is right about 6011s, they are great, but they can be a bugger to find.

[LAB80]

Good question.
I have always believed it was the aggresive arc. On pipe it is very forgiving with peno. If make a keyhole, and by now you have seen how easy a keyhole is to make with them, then you know its penetrating. The faster freeze and less slag is good too.
I personally do all pipe work in shop with tig root or 16tc Wia electrodes. They are 7016s. 7016 caps or Sometimes fluxcore caps. On site I use 7016s exclusively. Side note never use flux core mig for root. Can and should, two different things. I hear alot about 6013s but I find them unpredictable. It is worth investing in yourself to spend the time trial and error, find what works. I personally only keep wia 16tcs (7016) and ferrocraft 21(7014) they always leave industry quality results and both are standard for heavy industry and construction in Aust and probably New Zealand as we share alot of AsNz standards. I hope this helps.
Tweake is right about 6011s, they are great, but they can be a bugger to find.

Thanks.

I have tried the WIA 16TC's a while ago when I made a bed frame, they leave pretty beads and have a cool glassy slag eh? Also tried some BOC stuff 7016, which has a very gooey slag while its still hot, almost like melted plastic.. and it does not feel good when some gets stuck to your face Have you tried KOBE 7016? That's what I bought recently because its very cheap compared to WIA.. I don't know enough to tell if its as 'good' as WIA, just wonderings on yer opinion.

I will try get ahold of some 7014, not tried that yet... I vaguely recall that's a 'better' alternative to 6013?

[tweake]

Thanks.

I have tried the WIA 16TC's a while ago when I made a bed frame, they leave pretty beads and have a cool glassy slag eh? Also tried some BOC stuff 7016, which has a very gooey slag while its still hot, almost like melted plastic.. and it does not feel good when some gets stuck to your face Have you tried KOBE 7016? That's what I bought recently because its very cheap compared to WIA.. I don't know enough to tell if its as 'good' as WIA, just wonderings on yer opinion.

I will try get ahold of some 7014, not tried that yet... I vaguely recall that's a 'better' alternative to 6013?

7014 is simply an iron powdered version of 6013.
bit like what 7018 is to 7016.

[Gdarc21]

7016s change slightly brand to brand, the metal deposition is to standard its just thier individual operator appeal recipe that changes. Wia are the industry got to. It used to be cigweld 55u, but Wia came in cheaper with twin coat and were slightly smoother to run. 55u and cigweld are now used a tafe cause they do a deal with tech schools. Still a great stick. Cigweld do branding just like Coca cola do i.e vendor gets better margin if they dont acknowledge pepsi type thing. Any ways sorry back to sticks.
Havent tried kobe. Boc are usually good but expensive and a local welding suppliers usually have lincoln wia and cigweld, which are trustworthy.
All brand sticks match codes but some have better quality control. Some times arc will shoot outside of stick and you change settings only to find flux was made off centre in half a pack. Wont name em. But thats usually last pack you buy.
Lincoln consumables are literally worldclass, products cover nearly all welding and back up service is unbelievable. When you can ask a company how to get someone elses product to work better.....and they help you then you know you found guys who likes welds more than sales. They still like sales though
I suppose its all trial and error. Dont be scared to lay bad stuff in practise or destroy a weld on scrap to see what it actually did. Sanding disc and some pickling paste can give a decent etch test.
Essentially professional welders try try try, find what they trust (consumables and equipment) and dont vary too widely unless they have to. Contracts, qoutes, car repairs etc all take some thinking too. Knowing what the numbers mean is important, but understanding sub arc consumable for jobs you never do will cost time and money, just saying and if your not doing you forget anyway.
Its like me fishing, I buy lotsa lures and end up catching them with cheese.................have a lot of dry lures. But then I eat alot of chicken for all the fishing I do anyway

[LAB80]

Welp, I finished welding up the main bits of the welding cart with 7016.. made some world class haemorrhoids in some of the welds, mainly while trying to fill in gaps due to poor fitup. It did seem to be a bit easier to weld without blowing the ass out of it though. Quite the contrast between recently doing 6010 though, for some reason 6010 seems to deposit less metal, but 7016 seems to squirt it out in comparison, and is harder to tidy up holes without a grinder.

Of note was the positions where I was super comfortable turned out quite well, even if there was a gap which needed multiple runs.

Again, the satisfaction factor with this welding business is pretty high... I need to learn more and get a job doing this shit

[Poland308]

That’s the difference between fast fill and fast freeze.

[LAB80]

Been playing more with 7016, and I am really really starting to like them. I have found you can cruise along, and you can sort of point the rod where you want the puddle to go, and it kind of blows it over there, and eats into the area. I noticed this when trying to lay straight beads, and I was trying to correct previously wonky beads, by filling in the.. bend a bit.

I have also found I can do this with 6010, but not as gracefully, and only on sheet which is thick.. ie sheet which already has layers of weld on it.. otherwise it just wants blows through.

This shit is so outrageously satisfying, addictive, and fun to learn and dick around with... it seems like its a never ending learning curve, its awesome I really need to get a job doing this

[Gdarc21]

Yeah you're right, it is very satisfying and always something new to learn.
If your keen and safety focused you should be right finding work.

[LAB80]

The latest 7016 practice bead abomanations

beads.jpg (2.86 MiB) Viewed 254610 times

Any suggestions about what should I work on first?

[Gdarc21]

You are very close. Just heat control and handspeed and thats something we always doing anyway.
You would be ready for V ups soon