[ryanjames170]

so i have seen alot of the threads on running a welder on Generator and i understand the whole need X amount of watts to get X amout out of the welder and what not.. and you need to keep it in a frequency range but here is one for you guys..

now i know that transformer Machines are Dumb ie they realy dont have any computer parts in them and what not so having a off frequency off a generator probaly would not affect them much if any..

now inverters are a different story especially the IGBT ones and dual voltage ones.. got me a looking at my AHP160ST's owners manual (got looking at it for a whole different reason) as i had been trying to find the point where the generator could not keep up and i had found my math to be way the hell off.. so i had looked into if it had a stated efficiency of the unit.. did find that it was 80% and not 75 like i had anticipated thus why i could go up on the amps on 110V farther then i had thought posible..

anyhow i noticed it was rated for 50/60Hz now question is.. if a machine is rated for this kinda thing dose it mean that a person could get away with the engine driven generator bogging a bit a dropping the Frequency as long as it stayed in the 50-60hz range?

also gets me wondering if this is the same reason they rate all welders at 110V as im sure they know that just about every place in the USA is using 120V ie rate a machine for being able to use 110V thinking in a margin for volt drop in the line.. to say 114V vs 120 at source.

for those who are wondering going to ask.. i had prdicted about 95A max out of my welder on a 3000/3500W generator but i was able to push it to 118A and was able to run comfortable around 110A with out issue.. i also think i could get the 118A with out issue due to the generator being underrated as most with its engine are around 3300/4000W range

anyhow back to the question at hand.. what do you guys think of the frequency thing with inverter welders do they spec them out like this for just this reason.. that its a margin safty if you will, robustness to be better.

how i would build something anyhow..

[MinnesotaDave]

While transformer machines are quite durable, mig welders generally have a control board in them.
Not all machines are listed at 110v input, I know of several who list their numbers from 120v input.

The rest I can only speculate on. I think inverters are pretty interesting in general.

I tried your same experiment with an old transformer mig several years ago. The small 3500 watt genny bogged and almost died. The 5000/6250 machine also bogged a little, but didn't give good power. My research led me to find my larger genny was a 120/240 machine and that means half of the rated 5000 watts was generated on 2 separate 120v legs. So it didn't have the available power needed on one leg of 120v.
If I had run a 240v mig, I would have had access to all of the wattage.

My Miller maxstar 150 stick/tig ran good on the 5000 watt genny on 240v.

[noddybrian]

On a decent build 120 / 240 generator the ends of both winding sets will go to change over switch which connects them in series or parallel so in 120 volt setting you will still get full output - but I have seen some cheap crap that just tagged one side of the 120 to a socket.

On the OP's query most machines will tolerate 50 / 60 Hz so the same machine can be sold worldwide without modification as most counties other than the US use 50Hz - also line voltage varies more than you may think with location within a country so just because you assume you have 110volt or 240 volt does'nt make it so ! running on generators also has issues with wave shape of output especially under load & a whole bunch of other stuff that gets more complicated the more you learn !

[MinnesotaDave]

On a decent build 120 / 240 generator the ends of both winding sets will go to change over switch which connects them in series or parallel so in 120 volt setting you will still get full output - but I have seen some cheap crap that just tagged one side of the 120 to a socket.

Yep, that would be my old, cheap Generac right there. No switch to change operation.

[ryanjames170]

On a decent build 120 / 240 generator the ends of both winding sets will go to change over switch which connects them in series or parallel so in 120 volt setting you will still get full output - but I have seen some cheap crap that just tagged one side of the 120 to a socket.

Yep, that would be my old, cheap Generac right there. No switch to change operation.

my current Non welder generator is a Allpower one, dose have a switch for 240/120V operation.. my only bitch with it is i should of gotten the bigger model haha but its better then nothing.. and the only reason i got this one over anything else was i got it for $100 off retail from my work.

[Keith_J]

Wow, a lot to answer. First of all, 120, 110 confusion. The utility provides 120 volts. Depending on load, this may drop to 110 volts at the end of the extension cord. Same with 220, 230 and 240 for single or split phase. Now for three phase, 208 volt IS different as it is two 120 volt legs 120° out of phase while 240 volt split is two 120 volt legs 180° out of phase.

On inverter machines..they are generally more tolerant of frequency and voltage issues since right after the switch, the current is rectified to direct current, then filtered and conditioned. They tolerate poor power better than transformers up to a point. The filters used to clamp high voltage spikes don't last forever.

With that said, single cylinder engines on cheap generators don't do well spinning 3600 RPM to make 60 Hz power. Why? Because the current is changing direction 60 times a second while the piston is only on a power stroke 30 times a second. So voltage AND frequency vary. Sure, it is an average of 60 Hz but one sine wave may be 50 Hz and the next 70. Likewise with voltage.

[ryanjames170]

Wow, a lot to answer. First of all, 120, 110 confusion. The utility provides 120 volts. Depending on load, this may drop to 110 volts at the end of the extension cord. Same with 220, 230 and 240 for single or split phase. Now for three phase, 208 volt IS different as it is two 120 volt legs 120° out of phase while 240 volt split is two 120 volt legs 180° out of phase.

On inverter machines..they are generally more tolerant of frequency and voltage issues since right after the switch, the current is rectified to direct current, then filtered and conditioned. They tolerate poor power better than transformers up to a point. The filters used to clamp high voltage spikes don't last forever.

With that said, single cylinder engines on cheap generators don't do well spinning 3600 RPM to make 60 Hz power. Why? Because the current is changing direction 60 times a second while the piston is only on a power stroke 30 times a second. So voltage AND frequency vary. Sure, it is an average of 60 Hz but one sine wave may be 50 Hz and the next 70. Likewise with voltage.

i here you on the Engine thing there.. why if i had it my way id make a 7000W generator on a V twin engine.. i had kinda drawn up a dream generator at one point or another..

would be fun to get a bunch of generators and put them on a progressive load testing and see at what point stuff starts to get weird and what not..

my only big reason for doing what i did was to see what the limits were with the generator i had... wanted to know how much bigger i would need to go.. kinda price vs value thing i ended up deciding that generator head wise i can get away with 5500 Watt as long as it is coupled with a 13HP engine.. idealy a bigger generator would have a larger engine.. as at that wattage your getting 2HP per 1000 watts.. and at 120A output i would have quite alot of reserve built in.. this is going to be my next purchase for a generator and will be giving the smaller one to my dad for back up during power outages.

[Oscar]

Just get one of these. Done.

[ryanjames170]

Just get one of these. Done.

if i had that kinda cash.. i would just get one of these and be done https://www.millerwelds.com/equipment/w ... der-m90334 i know its not as much power output how ever its got a good 225A welder built right in..

[MinnesotaDave]

Ryanjames- used bobcat 225 machines can be had from $900-$1500.

Mine was $1500 and only has a few hundred hours on it. Older model so has 8000 watts instead of 10000.

Decent welding arc, generator output is good - only 600 lbs.

[ryanjames170]

Ryanjames- used bobcat 225 machines can be had from $900-$1500.

Mine was $1500 and only has a few hundred hours on it. Older model so has 8000 watts instead of 10000.

Decent welding arc, generator output is good - only 600 lbs.

what my end game is something lighter then what i got now at 500lbs i currently have a Miller 2E if i need a welder generator but with my current truck if i can knock of a few hundred lbs i would help me in many different ways..

[Keith_J]

Used engines? With booze in gas, sniff test the fuel tank. If it smells like the alley behind a dive bar, expect to do a full fuel system service with a new carb. If it smells like Minwax Cherry Wood stain, you might be able to save the carb.

Even diesel generators suffer fuel woes with the bio fuel mandate. Biodiesel can hold more water in suspension than old school straight mineral diesel. Meaning water separators won't protect the injection pump. This water falls out in cold weather and usually trashes the injection pump. Only fresh diesel will save you expensive repairs.

I cycle the diesel out of the set tank every 3 months and burn it in the truck.