what tungsten is best for aluminium welding

sistack · Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:21 pm

what is the best type of tungsten for Aluminium welding
I'm using a Thermal Arc ArcMaster ACDC 300
at present i'm using white tip
thanks
Simon

exnailpounder · Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:59 pm

sistack wrote:what is the best type of tungsten for Aluminium welding
I'm using a Thermal Arc ArcMaster ACDC 300
at present i'm using white tip
thanks
Simon

If your machine is a transformer, then use pure (green) If it is an inverter, 2% Lanthanated is the best all around tungsten but others might disagree. I used some E3 awhile back on some AL and I thought it did a good job.

Farmwelding · Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:03 pm

Lanthanated or ceriated is what I use. THey both run pretty well. Like most things there is a bit of personally preference to a point. What you may want to do is pick up a variety of reccomendations electrodes and figure out what you like best. Oh and don't use pure in an inverter ever cause it balls up too easily.

bruce991 · Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:14 pm

Lincoln and Everlast inverter user I use 3/32 2% Lanthenated. Found smaller diameter tungsten just would not tolerate heat needed.

kiwi2wheels · Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:38 pm

There's two types of zirconiated tungstens , brown (up to 0.4% Zr) and white (up to 0.8% Zr)

https://www.millerwelds.com/resources/a ... er-welding

If the white you have works, holds a stable ball, doesn't spit inclusions into your weld and you don't have a problem, stick with
it. Maybe experiment with other grades if you cant get the arc shape/point you want. Plus some inverter machines seem "kinder" to the tungsten on AC than others.

Brown used to be the standard when electrodes were US made and there were never any issues. It was the only thing to use if you were machining a welded component, because of no tungsten inclusions. In Europe these days, the quality of white is scheisse and you use what ever works. I had an instance with some 4mm white on a 500A inverter that were unusable on any settings and had to use pure, which could just be made to last, only because that was all we had .

As all tungstens are now made in China, its a bit of a crap shoot brand wise, unless you go with a brand like C&K.

Louie1961 · Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:22 pm

Jody did a video on this and 2% lanthanated stood up the best. That's what I run on my Syncrowave. I use a 1/8 inch electrode for heavier situations like quarter inch plate, and I don't even ball it.

maker of things · Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:05 pm

I like 2% lanthanted on both inverter and transformer machines too.

pgk · Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:47 am

Hey Simon,
I would pickup some 3/32 Lanthanated or Ceriated both should work very nice with your machine.

Pete

Olivero · Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:57 pm

All I use is E3 (purple) and those are really good, work on both AC and DC, steel, stainless, aluminum etc. Only gotta keep one type on the shelf.

Otherwise Zirconiated or Ceriated are also pretty good I hear, never tried them but I have heard good of them.

GreinTime · Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:59 pm

Olivero wrote:All I use is E3 (purple) and those are really good, work on both AC and DC, steel, stainless, aluminum etc. Only gotta keep one type on the shelf.

Otherwise Zirconiated or Ceriated are also pretty good I hear, never tried them but I have heard good of them.

Boooooooooooooooooo!!!!!! I hated E3 every time I ran it!

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exnailpounder · Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:44 pm

GreinTime wrote:
Olivero wrote:All I use is E3 (purple) and those are really good, work on both AC and DC, steel, stainless, aluminum etc. Only gotta keep one type on the shelf.

Otherwise Zirconiated or Ceriated are also pretty good I hear, never tried them but I have heard good of them.
Boooooooooooooooooo!!!!!! I hated E3 every time I ran it!

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Sam...can you elaborate? I tried some E3 and I thought it did a decent job. It was 1/16" on super thin AL so I didn't really get to put it to the test but I had no trouble with it balling nicely or splitting.

Poland308 · Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:47 pm

I'm in the dark ages I use thoriated, in 3/32 and 1/8.

exnailpounder · Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:52 pm

Poland308 wrote:I'm in the dark ages I use thoriated, in 3/32 and 1/8.

You're gonna get cancer bud! That stuff is radioactive

Poland308 · Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:01 pm

I put the new one in my mouth while I take out the old one.

exnailpounder · Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:06 pm

Poland308 wrote:I put the new one in my mouth while I take out the old one.

You too huh?

Farmwelding · Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:13 pm

exnailpounder wrote:
Poland308 wrote:I'm in the dark ages I use thoriated, in 3/32 and 1/8.
You're gonna get cancer bud! That stuff is radioactive

Yeah and the water I drink on the farm is gonna cause me to have nerve issues. Used to have a little arsenic. Cows never showed it after thousands of gallons each and no one in my family got sick or had issues. Then they filtered it out and now it tastes like crap city water. And besides when you're welding galvanized steel or wire brushing a 1/16" layer of rust that is really when you have to worry

exnailpounder · Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:18 pm

Farmwelding wrote:
exnailpounder wrote:
Poland308 wrote:I'm in the dark ages I use thoriated, in 3/32 and 1/8.
You're gonna get cancer bud! That stuff is radioactive
Yeah and the water I drink on the farm is gonna cause me to have nerve issues. Used to have a little arsenic. Cows never showed it after thousands of gallons each and no one in my family got sick or had issues. Then they filtered it out and now it tastes like crap city water. And besides when you're welding galvanized steel or wire brushing a 1/16" layer of rust that is really when you have to worry

Worry about what? I make sure when I weld galvanized that I have my hood over the weld so I get a nice dose of fumes...heard it keeps you from getting colds. Rust? Other than getting some pretty shop boogers, what is wrong with rust?

GreinTime · Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:21 pm

exnailpounder wrote:
GreinTime wrote:
Olivero wrote:All I use is E3 (purple) and those are really good, work on both AC and DC, steel, stainless, aluminum etc. Only gotta keep one type on the shelf.

Otherwise Zirconiated or Ceriated are also pretty good I hear, never tried them but I have heard good of them.
Boooooooooooooooooo!!!!!! I hated E3 every time I ran it!

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
Sam...can you elaborate? I tried some E3 and I thought it did a decent job. It was 1/16" on super thin AL so I didn't really get to put it to the test but I had no trouble with it balling nicely or splitting.

My experience with it has been at the upper limits of 1/8" tungsten on a Syncrowave 250 and Lanthanated out performed it. We also tried it with our robotic TIG welder, and Lanthanated outperformed it within the range of a 3/32 tungsten every test we ran.

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exnailpounder · Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:28 pm

I also think 2% Lanthanated is "the shit" but I was in a pinch and all that the LWS had in 1/16" was E3 and it served the purpose. Would I switch to it? Never. I was at the welders candy store yesterday and almost popped for a pack of Quad and Rare Earth but thought better of it and got more 2% Lan. Your opinion on Quad and RE?

Olivero · Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:24 pm

Well, I never tried letting a robot do my welding for me and I only use 3/32" as I rarely need to go above 200 amps on the stuff I build but I've built a lot of stuff with E3 and it works great for me.

Don't know what to say to that, could get into one of those "my dad is stronger than yours" arguments, but why bother. I should really try Lanthanated though..........

LWS told me of E3 and had me at hello on that one. Used to use the hazardous OHMAHGOD HES GRINDING IT! CLEAR THE ROOM! 2% Thoriated but figured I would try something else and now all I use and have been using for a year is E3. Tried the 4% thoriated rod (HOLY SHAAIT) didn't feel any difference whatsoever, started growing gills after that though, darn radiation.

GreinTime · Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:16 pm

Olivero wrote:Well, I never tried letting a robot do my welding for me and I only use 3/32" as I rarely need to go above 200 amps on the stuff I build but I've built a lot of stuff with E3 and it works great for me.

Don't know what to say to that, could get into one of those "my dad is stronger than yours" arguments, but why bother. I should really try Lanthanated though..........

LWS told me of E3 and had me at hello on that one. Used to use the hazardous OHMAHGOD HES GRINDING IT! CLEAR THE ROOM! 2% Thoriated but figured I would try something else and now all I use and have been using for a year is E3. Tried the 4% thoriated rod (HOLY SHAAIT) didn't feel any difference whatsoever, started growing gills after that though, darn radiation.

Like I said, I'm sure within the recommended range, it's fine, but 2%La has held up better when exceeding it. Zircononiated tungsten held up better on the Syncrowave at 310 than any of them actually, but that was a fellow welders personal stash. The company supplies La/Th/Pure for us to use.

The robot makes 41 arc starts in 2.75 minutes, some pulse some straight amperage, so in an hour, it might get the same number of arc starts some get in a week. Start repeatability and accuracy is paramount with the robot, and we've found that the La outperformed the E3 with specific regards to this project. I'm trying to get them to switch to 1/8 and it will eliminate the problem totally, but we'll see how that goes. They are using 1/8 on the cloos across the shop and aren't having any tungsten degradation issues at all with the amperage we are using.

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kiwi2wheels · Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:44 pm

GreinTime wrote:
Like I said, I'm sure within the recommended range, it's fine, but 2%La has held up better when exceeding it. Zircononiated tungsten held up better on the Syncrowave at 310 than any of them actually, but that was a fellow welders personal stash. The company supplies La/Th/Pure for us to use.

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Could you find out what brand and color these were please ?

GreinTime · Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:41 pm

kiwi2wheels wrote:
GreinTime wrote:
Like I said, I'm sure within the recommended range, it's fine, but 2%La has held up better when exceeding it. Zircononiated tungsten held up better on the Syncrowave at 310 than any of them actually, but that was a fellow welders personal stash. The company supplies La/Th/Pure for us to use.

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Could you find out what brand and color these were please ?

CK Brown Band as far as I know, I'll double check with you. 1.5% if memory serves correct?

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Rcc · Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:22 pm

I have good results with the diamond ground tri-mix cream color. Pricey but works well on Aluminum for me. I'm using a miller dynasty

kiwi2wheels · Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:45 pm

GreinTime wrote:
kiwi2wheels wrote:
GreinTime wrote:
Like I said, I'm sure within the recommended range, it's fine, but 2%La has held up better when exceeding it. Zircononiated tungsten held up better on the Syncrowave at 310 than any of them actually, but that was a fellow welders personal stash. The company supplies La/Th/Pure for us to use.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
Could you find out what brand and color these were please ?
CK Brown Band as far as I know, I'll double check with you. 1.5% if memory serves correct?

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Thanks. I contacted CK 18 months back about the brown; they said it brown tungsten was 0.3% zirconium and the white tungsten is 0.8% zirconium. I found an old (July 2000) catalog that listed brown as nominal 0.25% and also has a recommendation for using 2% thoriated for al/mag with 75% argon/25% helium with AC. No mention of whether transformer or inverter. However, this does.

http://www.thefabricator.com/article/al ... minum-gtaw

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