[karagoz]

Hello, my name is AL. I welded with MIG and stick but never with TIG . Need TIG for bronze candlesticks and furniture bronze to steel repair, could you please tell me what the main difference between Amico TIG-165 and 165HF ? They are both High frequency , right ? And also what the main difference between Amico TIG-205 and TIG-205HF ? I will be using it 1-2 times a month for 5-10 minutes, what do you think will be better for me for the money? Thank you very much and best regards. Al.

[Poland308]

Can you post a link to a sales place or manufacturer website. That will help you get some better answers.

[LtBadd]

Hello Al, welcome to the forum
This is from Home Depot's website, I tried to go to their main site and my anti-virus warned of a Trojan so I left.

For new members, it is helpful to include in your profile something to indicate your location, thanks. We have members all over the world

Model# ARC-165
AMICO POWER Amico 160 Amp Stick arc MMA Inverter DC Welder 110-Volt and 230-Volt Dual Voltage Welding Machine New
$156.08
Input Power (Volts) 110/230
Maximum amperage output (amps) 160
Material Application Thickness (in.) 0.4
Engine Power Electric (AC)
Process Application Type DC Stick (SMAW)

Model# TIG-165HF
AMICO POWER 160 Amp TIG Stick Arc DC Inverter Welder with 95-Volt to 260-Volt Wide Voltage Welding, 80% Duty Cycle
$224.23
Engine Power Electric (AC)
Input Power (Volts) 120/240
Material Application Thickness (in.) 0.6
Maximum amperage output (amps) 165
Process Application Type DC Pulsed TIG (GTAW-P)

[Spartan]

Best advice I can give is to figure out which size machine you'll need based on the work you expect to do, and then invest in the machine that is at least one power size up (i.e. if you think the 165 will meet all of your needs, go with the 205). Most likely you will soon find a need for that increased power, and I've yet to meet a welder that ended up regretting going for the bigger machine.

Also, may be worth considering the potential benefits of having AC capabilities for working with bronze.

[Poland308]

If you focusing on tig, and you only plan on doing steel and SS then a 165 amp machine is a good starter machine. I’d recommend the one with high freq it will be easier to start learning than the one that’s scratch start. Looks like that’s about the only difference between the two.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Remember you will need a tig torch and a pedal (or finger switch) to be able to tig.

I'm guessing at those prices they don't include a tig torch, but maybe I'm wrong.

[tweake]

Also, may be worth considering the potential benefits of having AC capabilities for working with bronze.

thats something that really needs to be taken into consideration.
there is a really big difference in cost between DC and AC tig machines.

i can't comment on brands or prices, however i highly recommend starting with an HF (high frequency) machine.
also for something thats going to need good visual quality decent controls such as downslope and foot pedal i think are a must have. ie you need something fairly decent well above scratch/lift start tig.

[TraditionalToolworks]

No direct experience with this tig machine, but for $400 you get everything you need in a 200 amp DC tig machine.

https://primeweld.com/products/tig200-d ... tig-welder

Includes free shipping, 3 year warranty and 7 days a week support. I just bought the 225 AC/DC machine. But this looks like a great starter for learning tig.

I'm not trying to discourage you, but tig welding is a slight can of worms. You're gonna need a helmet (the above includes some type of hand held shade), gloves, an angle grinder, wire brush, filler wire, tungstens, a way to sharpen the tungsten, a table to weld on, etc...you will find that you will need at least some of these so prepare to get some if you don't have them.

EDIT: the Amico 205 includes the tig torch, but no tungsten, no filler, no pedal. Might not be a bad deal if it works. You should consider the Primeweld 200 above as they are gaining a good reputation for their customer service and support.

[karagoz]

Thank you. This is side by side comperison of TIG-165 and TIG-165HF , I still can't see what is the difference. Which one is better? Best regards to all. Al.

http://amicopower.com/index.php?route=product/compare

[Oscar]

Thank you. This is side by side comperison of TIG-165 and TIG-165HF , I still can't see what is the difference. Which one is better? Best regards to all. Al.

http://amicopower.com/index.php?route=product/compare

Quite simply don't get either of them. They are both quite limiting when it comes to TIG. Have you seen screenshots of other TIG welders as far as the controls on them? Have you looked at the accessories other better TIG welders come with? If you haven't, then here is homework for you to do. Have a look at other TIG welder manufacturers and look for the differences and report back. Learning is a 2-way street.

[karagoz]

Thank you Oscar. Yes, Rolls-Royce is much better than Ford Fiesta but I am on $300 budget and have to compromise.

[Spartan]

Thank you. This is side by side comperison of TIG-165 and TIG-165HF , I still can't see what is the difference. Which one is better? Best regards to all. Al.

http://amicopower.com/index.php?route=product/compare

Looking on that website, it looks like they don't actually give much info on the machine capabilities of each model. What I can tell, when directly comparing the limited specs they provide for both the 165 and the 165HF, is that the "HF" in the name doesn't mean one has high frequency start as that may typically mean. Both the 165 and the 165HF both have high frequency (HF) start. Only major differences I see are the 165HF gets about 10 more amps in stick mode over the 165, and the 165HF comes with a few extra consumables included in the box.

[Oscar]

Thank you Oscar. Yes, Rolls-Royce is much better than Ford Fiesta but I am on $300 budget and have to compromise.

Look at both of the front panels of those machines. Tell me the difference you see (there is one, that is why I'm asking you to check ) If you can spot it (you should as it is not hidden), then let me know if you know what it does. If not then I'll be more than happy to help you.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Look at both of the front panels of those machines. Tell me the difference you see (there is one, that is why I'm asking you to check ) If you can spot it (you should as it is not hidden), then let me know if you know what it does. If not then I'll be more than happy to help you.

Actually I'll one up Oscar. If you can't see that knob in the picture and more so if you don't know what it does, you need to do more research before buying and find out WHAT it does.

I stand by my previous comment, save up a few more happy meals and get the Primeweld 200 DC Tig machine I linked to above. Better warranty, free shipping...you're gonna be into the Amico for about the same cost by the time you get a pedal and pay for shipping.

tig is not easy and you're gonna need a lot more tools and accessories to do it properly. In fact, do you have an argon tank? Cause you won't be welding tig without one, and that knob ain't gonna do anything for you without gas.

And then there's another problem...there's no regulator, do you have one of those also? Do you have a welding helmet? Do you have welding gloves? Do you have tig filler? Do you have some type of grinder to sharpen your tungsten electrode, the only one they provide to you? And you need the right wheel to sharpen it also or the right disc on your angle grinder.

Not trying to belittle you, just pointing out that tig is not simple and easy.

[Oscar]

Exactly. TIG is not cheap no matter how cheap the machine is. When it's all said and done piece'ing everything together, you're easily looking at $1,000+ any way you slice and dice it.

[Simclardy]

The other thing nobody mentioned is TIG welding bronze sucks. Unless someone has a secret I don't know about I use silicon bronze rods I don't enjoy it.
if I can use oxy-acetylene I prefer to.

Oscar if I didn't know you better I would think you were a teacher LOL
Remind me when I used to ask my teacher how to spell a word.



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[Oscar]

The other thing nobody mentioned is TIG welding bronze sucks. Unless someone has a secret I don't know about I use silicon bronze rods I don't enjoy it.
if I can use oxy-acetylene I prefer to.

Oscar if I didn't know you better I would think you were a teacher LOL
Remind me when I used to ask my teacher how to spell a word.



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Yup, was. Taught mathematics for middle & high school. 5 years ago they moved me up the ranks, so I have my own office now.

[Simclardy]

The other thing nobody mentioned is TIG welding bronze sucks. Unless someone has a secret I don't know about I use silicon bronze rods I don't enjoy it.
if I can use oxy-acetylene I prefer to.

Oscar if I didn't know you better I would think you were a teacher LOL
Remind me when I used to ask my teacher how to spell a word.



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Yup, was. Taught mathematics for middle & high school. 5 years ago they moved me up the ranks, so I have my own office now.

No more kids? Just have to deal with the darling parents?

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[Oscar]

The other thing nobody mentioned is TIG welding bronze sucks. Unless someone has a secret I don't know about I use silicon bronze rods I don't enjoy it.
if I can use oxy-acetylene I prefer to.

Oscar if I didn't know you better I would think you were a teacher LOL
Remind me when I used to ask my teacher how to spell a word.



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Yup, was. Taught mathematics for middle & high school. 5 years ago they moved me up the ranks, so I have my own office now.

No more kids? Just have to deal with the darling parents?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I'm afraid its worse than that....i have to deal with teachers! I kid you not. Worse than the kids!

[karagoz]

Thanks everyone! Everyone was very helpful. Looks like I need to do more learning before making my decision, TIG turned out to be much more complicated than I thought. Thank again and best regards. Al.

[Simclardy]

I believe you, i just would not have guessed it. My mom was a teacher and it does seem like principals tend to last about 2 years. So dealing with staff must be stress.
I work for myself, by myself, so i don't have to deal so much with that kind of drama.
I do deal with difficult customers sometimes but never for very long and on a few occasions i have fired my customer. Lol.


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[Simclardy]

Thanks everyone! Everyone was very helpful. Looks like I need to do more learning before making my decision, TIG turned out to be much more complicated than I thought. Thank again and best regards. Al.

Good luck. It's worth the effort

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[TraditionalToolworks]

Thanks everyone! Everyone was very helpful. Looks like I need to do more learning before making my decision, TIG turned out to be much more complicated than I thought. Thank again and best regards. Al.

Al,

Above you stated this:

Thank you Oscar. Yes, Rolls-Royce is much better than Ford Fiesta but I am on $300 budget and have to compromise.

And I think you need to keep something in mind...you can't buy a tig machine with a stick machine budget. Oscar is pretty much right that you will be into it for about $1000 when all is said and done, but it doesn't mean you will be spending that right away. You can do it cheaper than that, but the argon is a big issue that you will need to plan for. I wouldn't want to use less than an 80 cu ft tank, but you could use a small 20 cu ft tank, it just won't last very long. The other thing to consider is the cost of gas. I use a 125 cu ft tank and it costs about $75 to fill, I take the tank in and replace it with another one. You can rent a tank, but they cost money for deposit and monthly charges typically. Smaller tanks cost a lot more for the gas, a 20 cu ft tank might cost about $40 to exchange, I can't remember exactly, but it cost a lot more in smaller QTYs. I am not sure how it works when you rent exactly, check with your LWS to find out.

There are a number of things that you will definitely need to get into tig welding. You'll need to get some electrodes, and in the beginning you will go through a fair amount of them as you dunk it in the puddle, jam your filler into it, etc...and as mentioned you will need a way to sharpen them. At minimum you'll need an angle grinder with the proper disc on it, or a bench grinder with the correct wheel on it. I use a Dremel with a small diamond wheel, but it has a special attachment.

The helmet, gloves and clothing are a given. You don't need too much in the way of clothing for tig, as long as you cover your arms and exposed skin, don't be like some of these yahoos on the Internet tig welding in their t-shirt with your arms exposed, it's just not wise. But gloves are a must, fortunately you can get a pair for about $10-$15. Some of this stuff you can pick up on craigslist inexpensively, but a helmet is something you need to think about and/or how well it will protect your eyes. Many of the cheaper auto darkening helmets don't handle the tig arc well and you'll end up getting arc flashed.

Other basics like wire brushes, or an angle grinder with a wire wheel are helpful, IMO, as are different grinding disks and cutoff wheels. I place an angle grinder up high on the list as they are so versatile. You could use one to sharpen your electrode, clean the work and clean the weld, smooth it out for painting, etc...I have 3 of them.

I want to encourage you to pursue your quest to tig, but do it rationally. Jumping in and buying a $300 machine is not the ideal way to do that if you don't have some of these other pieces. Tig filler is about $15/lb. Electrodes are about $20-$40 for a pack of 10, depends on the size. The cost of the gas and/or if you buy or rent a tank. At minimum you will need a non-auto darkening fixed lens helmet. Could probably find one for about $20 on craigslist. A pedal if the machine doesn't have one is helpful, I can't imagine doing tig without one, I only use a finger switch to tack weld. Some use the type you can change the amperage with, but those are not cheap.

Check out that link I posted above, that Primeweld 200 is not a bad package for $400. Still needs many of these extras I've mentioned...won't lie about that, but has a lot of what you do need. Spend a bit more you can get one with a regulator, or buy one on ebay, but you will need one.

Good luck with your quest, and hope we didn't shy you away, tig welding is a kick in the pants.

[Simclardy]

Thanks everyone! Everyone was very helpful. Looks like I need to do more learning before making my decision, TIG turned out to be much more complicated than I thought. Thank again and best regards. Al.

Al,

Above you stated this:

Thank you Oscar. Yes, Rolls-Royce is much better than Ford Fiesta but I am on $300 budget and have to compromise.

And I think you need to keep something in mind...you can't buy a tig machine with a stick machine budget. Oscar is pretty much right that you will be into it for about $1000 when all is said and done, but it doesn't mean you will be spending that right away. You can do it cheaper than that, but the argon is a big issue that you will need to plan for. I wouldn't want to use less than an 80 cu ft tank, but you could use a small 20 cu ft tank, it just won't last very long. The other thing to consider is the cost of gas. I use a 125 cu ft tank and it costs about $75 to fill, I take the tank in and replace it with another one. You can rent a tank, but they cost money for deposit and monthly charges typically. Smaller tanks cost a lot more for the gas, a 20 cu ft tank might cost about $40 to exchange, I can't remember exactly, but it cost a lot more in smaller QTYs. I am not sure how it works when you rent exactly, check with your LWS to find out.

There are a number of things that you will definitely need to get into tig welding. You'll need to get some electrodes, and in the beginning you will go through a fair amount of them as you dunk it in the puddle, jam your filler into it, etc...and as mentioned you will need a way to sharpen them. At minimum you'll need an angle grinder with the proper disc on it, or a bench grinder with the correct wheel on it. I use a Dremel with a small diamond wheel, but it has a special attachment.

The helmet, gloves and clothing are a given. You don't need too much in the way of clothing for tig, as long as you cover your arms and exposed skin, don't be like some of these yahoos on the Internet tig welding in their t-shirt with your arms exposed, it's just not wise. But gloves are a must, fortunately you can get a pair for about $10-$15. Some of this stuff you can pick up on craigslist inexpensively, but a helmet is something you need to think about and/or how well it will protect your eyes. Many of the cheaper auto darkening helmets don't handle the tig arc well and you'll end up getting arc flashed.

Other basics like wire brushes, or an angle grinder with a wire wheel are helpful, IMO, as are different grinding disks and cutoff wheels. I place an angle grinder up high on the list as they are so versatile. You could use one to sharpen your electrode, clean the work and clean the weld, smooth it out for painting, etc...I have 3 of them.

I want to encourage you to pursue your quest to tig, but do it rationally. Jumping in and buying a $300 machine is not the ideal way to do that if you don't have some of these other pieces. Tig filler is about $15/lb. Electrodes are about $20-$40 for a pack of 10, depends on the size. The cost of the gas and/or if you buy or rent a tank. At minimum you will need a non-auto darkening fixed lens helmet. Could probably find one for about $20 on craigslist. A pedal if the machine doesn't have one is helpful, I can't imagine doing tig without one, I only use a finger switch to tack weld. Some use the type you can change the amperage with, but those are not cheap.

Check out that link I posted above, that Primeweld 200 is not a bad package for $400. Still needs many of these extras I've mentioned...won't lie about that, but has a lot of what you do need. Spend a bit more you can get one with a regulator, or buy one on ebay, but you will need one.

Good luck with your quest, and hope we didn't shy you away, tig welding is a kick in the pants.

Nice summary

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[BugHunter]

To stay within your budget you might consider looking on Craigslist for a used machine, or maybe I don't know if they have a Marketplace here on the Forum, maybe somebody has something for sale. You can pick up complete setups used often times for pennies on the dollar.