[dudley]

Hello All,
Novice tig welder here trying to gain some skill when I have time.
I've been practicing today at my shop.. My only reference point for what to strive for is what I've watched in Jody's and other videos online and a practice session a while back with a welder I know.

The lap joints are 3/16" thick cold rolled steel, and the padding block Is 3/8" thick hot rolled that I sanded the skin off of.
filler rod: er70s-6
tungsten: 3/32"
#8 cup with gas lens
approx 18cfh argon
dynasty 280dx with pedal

I was running the lap joints at 160 amps, and 180 for the padding.
I'm not even close to being able to feed the rod well during the pass as it just feels like there's too much going on to have the dexterity, although I'm trying to practice this. I pretty much just dab with it pinched between my thumb or fingers.

any advise or feedback would be appreciated.. other drills or methods to practice would also be great to know.

- dudley

https://imgur.com/a/dpyKLBc

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[TraditionalToolworks]

Welcome! Looks like a good start!

[dudley]

Welcome! Looks like a good start!

Thanks!
I'm doing my best

[TraditionalToolworks]

Thanks!
I'm doing my best

Where are you in Silicon Valley? I'm curious which local welding store you use.

I go to Madco/Praxair on Old Middlefield up in Mountain View, but they seem to be going downhill. I need to get gas soon and will continue using them. I was just there and was quoted $49.80 to exchange a 125cf bottle of argon, not sure if they will charge HAZMAT on that, but I suspect that might be extra.

[cj737]

Your lap joints look just fine. The trick is to keep the filler/puddle from taking off the top lip. Think about keeping your tungsten pointed at a 45* angle right into the root. Then add filler to increase the puddle size. Without filler, you’ll be melting the base metal/vertical side already, so filler just reinforces the root.

If you take some practice runs so your torch arm is very lightly resting but able to slide along the joint, you’ll do better. Feeding filler takes time to develop the dexterity.

Your padded beads look really good. For the practice, they’re absolutely fine. But the actual heat used was a bit low as witnessed by the edges of the last bead. See how it wraps underneath? You ultimately want that wetted into the plate. Don’t fret right now on the total amps needed, just develop your skills (like you’re doing).

That dynasty is a very nice machine. I have the older 200DX and my best mate has the same 280DX. I can’t wait to read his Will

[dudley]

Thanks!
I'm doing my best

Where are you in Silicon Valley? I'm curious which local welding store you use.

I go to Madco/Praxair on Old Middlefield up in Mountain View, but they seem to be going downhill. I need to get gas soon and will continue using them. I was just there and was quoted $49.80 to exchange a 125cf bottle of argon, not sure if they will charge HAZMAT on that, but I suspect that might be extra.

I'm in San Jose, near montague and trimble.. I usually go to Airgas, and honestly don't really shop around for better prices and such. It's more about keeping bottles of gas on hand to keep production going.
For argon, last time I went.. It was $181.00 ea for 2x 250's, $195.00 for a 300 plus hazmat and tax. So I paid $638 for 3 big bottles to be filled. all customer owned.

[dudley]

Your lap joints look just fine. The trick is to keep the filler/puddle from taking off the top lip. Think about keeping your tungsten pointed at a 45* angle right into the root. Then add filler to increase the puddle size. Without filler, you’ll be melting the base metal/vertical side already, so filler just reinforces the root.

If you take some practice runs so your torch arm is very lightly resting but able to slide along the joint, you’ll do better. Feeding filler takes time to develop the dexterity.

Your padded beads look really good. For the practice, they’re absolutely fine. But the actual heat used was a bit low as witnessed by the edges of the last bead. See how it wraps underneath? You ultimately want that wetted into the plate. Don’t fret right now on the total amps needed, just develop your skills (like you’re doing).

That dynasty is a very nice machine. I have the older 200DX and my best mate has the same 280DX. I can’t wait to read his Will

Thanks for the feedback and insight,
Makes total sense.. Developing the skill and dexterity seems to be the big hurdle, I spend the day turning the 3/8" chunk of steel into a potato chip --> dunking it in water after every third pass. through repetition I'm noticing things, but it's really hard to just relax and not rush the dipping and relax the torch hand. Once I start a bead my arm just seems to get heavier.. lol

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Most of what we make at the shop is stainless.. So my natural instinct is to be wary of excessive heat input, I'm not a welder but I'm trying to learn so I can be when needed.

We have an old idealarc 300 as well and I just upgraded to the 280dx a week ago.. It's been pretty impressive how noticeable the difference is.

[Poland308]

You have to be able to get comfortable. Position wise. Practice will help.

[Oscar]

You have to be able to get comfortable. Position wise. Practice will help.

don't forget to breath steadily and tighten up your core muscles so you don't have 70lbs+ of upper body weight on your forearms/wrists/hands.

[DavidR8]

You have to be able to get comfortable. Position wise. Practice will help.

don't forget to breath steadily and tighten up your core muscles so you don't have 70lbs+ of upper body weight on your forearms/wrists/hands.

This is excellent advice, thanks Oscar!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BugHunter]

I'm in San Jose, near montague and trimble.. I usually go to Airgas, and honestly don't really shop around for better prices and such. It's more about keeping bottles of gas on hand to keep production going.
For argon, last time I went.. It was $181.00 ea for 2x 250's, $195.00 for a 300 plus hazmat and tax. So I paid $638 for 3 big bottles to be filled. all customer owned.

I paid just under $100 for a refill on a 300 and that is with delivery and pickup of the old rental tank and I'm on my way.

Got to love California.

[TraditionalToolworks]

I paid just under $100 for a refill on a 300 and that is with delivery and pickup of the old rental tank and I'm on my way.

Got to love California.

I certainly do.

Quoted from me above, I only pay $50 for a 125 cf tank. Just depends on where you go.

I go to Madco/Praxair on Old Middlefield up in Mountain View, but they seem to be going downhill. I need to get gas soon and will continue using them. I was just there and was quoted $49.80 to exchange a 125cf bottle of argon, not sure if they will charge HAZMAT on that, but I suspect that might be extra.

[BugHunter]

I certainly do.

Quoted from me above, I only pay $50 for a 125 cf tank. Just depends on where you go.

Probably true. I just bought a fuel pump for my dump truck and it was 300% more at one store for the generic version than I bought the Delphi at another local chain.

Caveat emptor.

[dudley]

I'm in San Jose, near montague and trimble.. I usually go to Airgas, and honestly don't really shop around for better prices and such. It's more about keeping bottles of gas on hand to keep production going.
For argon, last time I went.. It was $181.00 ea for 2x 250's, $195.00 for a 300 plus hazmat and tax. So I paid $638 for 3 big bottles to be filled. all customer owned.

I paid just under $100 for a refill on a 300 and that is with delivery and pickup of the old rental tank and I'm on my way.

Got to love California.

Just about everything here is inflated in price.. Including wages and rent.

But admittedly I haven't shopped around. I'm sure I could find a cheaper gas supplier.

[TraditionalToolworks]

But admittedly I haven't shopped around. I'm sure I could find a cheaper gas supplier.

dudley,

Pretty well known that Airgas is the most expensive on the planet, but there are not a lot of options around these parts since the lease space and price of housing has pretty much pushed many business to close.

I mentioned to you, I use Praxair, there's a 2nd one near downtown San Jose on Monterey.

Praxair San Jose
2971 Monterey Rd
San Jose, CA 95111
(408) 281-1104

You can get gas for about 1/2 of what you paid at Airgas. You must have gone to the Airgas off Coleman where it goes over the Freeway by the airport. I have only been there once, they have a lot of big customers that don't care what they pay, I know PG&E is a big customer of theirs.

I go to the Praxair on Old Middlefield (not far from Rengstroff) up by Google. They used to be Madco, but got bought out by Praxair a year or so ago...going downhill quickly.

It's getting to the point that it's just easier to shop online and buy only gas locally. There's another place not too far from you over on Lafayette just off Central called Welder's Heaven. Mason, the owner, has nothing priced and pulls prices out his arse. I've heard/read horrible reviews about him selling bottles of gas half empty. He has the most stock around, so he has gas lenses, Stronghand products, clamps, etc...but you pay for it. I wouldn't trust him to buy gas, but that's me. I've been raped by him a couple times, but he's open on the weekend if you really need something.

[BugHunter]

Mason, the owner, has nothing priced and pulls prices out his arse. I've heard/read horrible reviews about him selling bottles of gas half empty. He has the most stock around, so he has gas lenses, Stronghand products, clamps, etc...but you pay for it. I wouldn't trust him to buy gas, but that's me. I've been raped by him a couple times, but he's open on the weekend if you really need something.

Local beer distributor that sells CO2 for tap systems has screwed me at least twice, so it's to the point where I take my shipping scale there so I can weigh the cylinder when they bring it out and demand they fill it. Certain people who work there will put 5# in a 10# cylinder and charge for a 10#. With so few choices of where to get it filled, I tend to go back, but I keep an eye on em. Buggy don't play that game!

[dudley]

But admittedly I haven't shopped around. I'm sure I could find a cheaper gas supplier.

dudley,

Pretty well known that Airgas is the most expensive on the planet, but there are not a lot of options around these parts since the lease space and price of housing has pretty much pushed many business to close.

I mentioned to you, I use Praxair, there's a 2nd one near downtown San Jose on Monterey.

Praxair San Jose
2971 Monterey Rd
San Jose, CA 95111
(408) 281-1104

You can get gas for about 1/2 of what you paid at Airgas. You must have gone to the Airgas off Coleman where it goes over the Freeway by the airport. I have only been there once, they have a lot of big customers that don't care what they pay, I know PG&E is a big customer of theirs.

I go to the Praxair on Old Middlefield (not far from Rengstroff) up by Google. They used to be Madco, but got bought out by Praxair a year or so ago...going downhill quickly.

It's getting to the point that it's just easier to shop online and buy only gas locally. There's another place not too far from you over on Lafayette just off Central called Welder's Heaven. Mason, the owner, has nothing priced and pulls prices out his arse. I've heard/read horrible reviews about him selling bottles of gas half empty. He has the most stock around, so he has gas lenses, Stronghand products, clamps, etc...but you pay for it. I wouldn't trust him to buy gas, but that's me. I've been raped by him a couple times, but he's open on the weekend if you really need something.

So, years ago we used to go to Clark's welding supply that was really close to our shop.. They closed their doors when they were bought up by Airgas.

We used Welder's Heaven for a couple years but it was kind of a nightmare. I'll not walk into Mason's store again. He resisted/refused to write up paperwork and receipts. When I would send an employee to pick up some gas or consumables he would tell him to just take things and pay for them later. --> without giving any sort of packing slip or paper saying what was taken. I had to tell my employee to never walk out of there without paperwork.

One time he tried to tell me that we owed him for a bunch of invoices totaling in thousands of dollars.
I was really careful to make him give receipts for things to avoid a scenario like this. ^^
Chaos is a good way to describe his billing practices.

His pricing was never consistent, He just sort of typed things into a calculator and it was what it was that day.

The "invoices" that he alleged were unpaid had no signatures or dates that I could match with my records.. He just made them up based on notes he wrote down on post-its. It was shady to say the least.

Honestly, After dealing with such an unorganized business like Welder's Heaven I haven't really cared about paying a premium for a while... I am just happy to be able to keep track of my expenses and accounting records without a headache.

I'll definitely look into Praxair, It doesn't make sense to keep overpaying for Argon when there are less expensive suppliers out there.

- dudley

[sbaker56]

Those beads look very good for a beginner, I really don't think I need to critique anything besides that they look a bit cold, I like my ripple pattern to look fairly blended. What size filler rod are you using for padding?

[TraditionalToolworks]

So, years ago we used to go to Clark's welding supply that was really close to our shop.. They closed their doors when they were bought up by Airgas.

Unfortunately this story is all too common in this area.

I'll not walk into Mason's store again.

Your story made me laugh, so typical of the guy. I was probably fortunate, I went in on a weekend and needed a gas lens, the one I had been using got some filler on the screen and I tried to get it off and kind of destroyed it. I had heard that he was open on weekends, although most o the reviews are terrifying, I went there anyway. I was amazed how much stuff he had, compared to Madco (at the time) he had a lot of stuff. I was shocked when he charged me $20 for a gas lens. I to my fault, I didn't realize but thought I needed a lens for a 9 torch as I had a stubby. Got home and it of course didn't fit. I went back and he got really p!$$ed at me, I told him I didn't know, but I hadn't said anything about him charging me $20 for the lens to begin with. I can get them online for $17 for a 2-pak. He changed it and I left. I later needed filler, it was also a weekend so I went there, nothing else open...wasn't too bad, but a few bucks over priced...last time I've been there.

I was really careful to make him give receipts for things to avoid a scenario like this.

Indeed, he's not an honest businessman.

I'll definitely look into Praxair, It doesn't make sense to keep overpaying for Argon when there are less expensive suppliers out there.

They seem one of the better options around town, but I wouldn't place them on my favorite LWS to patronize, we just don't have too many options. I live in the Cupertino area, not a lot over here...

[dudley]

Those beads look very good for a beginner, I really don't think I need to critique anything besides that they look a bit cold, I like my ripple pattern to look fairly blended. What size filler rod are you using for padding?

I was using both 1/16" and 3/32" and I don't recall which rod diameter I was using when I was running the padding.

I appreciate the perspective from you and another comment and I'll try to focus on the bead wetting into the plate more.
My natural instinct is to not overheat material as we spend a lot of effort at my shop keeping stainless from turning grey.

I've never seen an example of an ideal run of padding, so this feedback is really helpful.

[dudley]

I'll definitely look into Praxair, It doesn't make sense to keep overpaying for Argon when there are less expensive suppliers out there.

They seem one of the better options around town, but I wouldn't place them on my favorite LWS to patronize, we just don't have too many options. I live in the Cupertino area, not a lot over here...

I sent a request through Praxair's site today and got a call from inside sales..
I'll have a quote for swapping bottles soon, it'll be interesting how their pricing compares.

I appreciate the lead on a new source for gas.

For consumables, I just buy things online.. I try to support Jody where it makes sense as his videos have helped me a lot.

- dudley

[TraditionalToolworks]

I sent a request through Praxair's site today and got a call from inside sales..
I'll have a quote for swapping bottles soon, it'll be interesting how their pricing compares.

I would also be interested to hear how the pricing compares.

I appreciate the lead on a new source for gas.

No worries, I hope it works out for you.

For consumables, I just buy things online.. I try to support Jody where it makes sense as his videos have helped me a lot.

I also buy most things online and I try to support Jody where I can as well. I have done more than my fair share to steer people to the Weldmonger site. Unfortunately Jody doesn't carry everything I need, so forced to spread some of that around between Arc-Zone, Welding Supply, Weldfabulous, Baker Gas and IOC to name the sites I most frequent (not in any particular order, just glancing at my bookmarks).

For me there has been no magic bullet, some places like Baker Gas have taken 2 weeks to get product to me. So while they have a good selection and free shipping above $50, waiting 2 weeks is not acceptable for me and I would imagine completely unacceptable for a commercial establishment as yours. Some places will sell product that is not in stock and I need to wait for up to 2 weeks to get that as well.

In general I want decent prices to get product to me in 2-4 days. I can often find vendors on ebay that can do that with priority USPS, often providing that for free. I don't belong to Amazon Prime but do resort to ordering product I can't get anywhere else from them.

[dudley]

Thanks!
I'm doing my best

Where are you in Silicon Valley? I'm curious which local welding store you use.

I go to Madco/Praxair on Old Middlefield up in Mountain View, but they seem to be going downhill. I need to get gas soon and will continue using them. I was just there and was quoted $49.80 to exchange a 125cf bottle of argon, not sure if they will charge HAZMAT on that, but I suspect that might be extra.

Update on Praxiar vs Airgas..
Praxair ended up being slightly less expensive. (4 ish dollars cheaper)
I decided to have them deliver to my shop as we are really busy and I didn't want to spend the time making the trip which added a fair amount of cost.
For 2x T size bottles delivered it ended up being $257 ea after delivery, taxes and all the fees.
The gas cost is pretty much the same between the 2 companies, but praxair's delivery fee was reasonable enough compared to Airgas for me to justify them delivering them.

At least I have terms with 2 vendors now to quote against each other and hopefully get some better deals down the road.

- dudley

Praxair-

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Airgas-

AIRGAS INVOICE.JPG (25.12 KiB) Viewed 2898 times

[cj737]

Yikes! you're paying nearly $200 for a cylinder of Argon? Sheesh, I pay less than $90 for a full sized bottle. I'd move if my business involved welding gas as a regular consumable. Lord Almighty...

[dudley]

Yikes! you're paying nearly $200 for a cylinder of Argon? Sheesh, I pay less than $90 for a full sized bottle. I'd move if my business involved welding gas as a regular consumable. Lord Almighty...

Fortunately, this is not a significant cost for what we're building..
We are not primarily a welding shop but a manufacturing business.

I'll keep shopping around though. I have a feeling this has more to do with the cost of living in Northern California and not my vendors giving me poor pricing.

--> if you saw the average rent, wages and property prices it would be equally shocking I'm sure.

- dudley