[Adam's Got Skills]

At school we have this rod and it's just 7018 H4R but it's like orange numbers an I think it's Hobart. Personally I use Lincoln rods, and even have had good luck with the lws brand. An when I run mine they look great no undercut real tight ripple and the slag peals off like a banana peel...I just have to give it a scratch with the stub of a used rod an off it comes. Today I started using this new electrode brand at school (we used to have Lincoln excaliber) and it doesn't look near as good as the old brand. I've tried going up and down with my amperage I've tried tighter weave, but the Lincoln invertec 350 machine looks like it just has 2 settings crisp/soft. Now I know soft is 7018 and crisp is for 6010/6011. An the slag is like tough as nails....I even brought my own grinder and wire wheel just to break it off. An also the ripples are a lot more course...I think it still looked good, but my instructor told me it looks like I'm using a whip/pause which I'm not at all. I'm struggling it feels like just to do what normally seems easy on my maxstar 200dx at home. My question is how do I get them to run smoother? Idk if someone has experience with these electrodes but if anyone has any idea why the slag is like so tough I need a pick axe to break it (well maybe not that bad) well it seems way tougher than anything I've used before. I'd really like to know if it's probably me or if these electrodes just run different all together. I know some are a lil different as far as amps/settings go, but I've exhausted my knowledge trying to figure it out. Any ideas would be great

[Adam's Got Skills]

these r some welds I've done on my machine at home...these aren't perfect just practice

[Adam's Got Skills]

Idk why it turned some sideways...The top was just a flat tee joint and the bottom was a vertical up 1/2" plate test....I think 2nd pass

[AKweldshop]

So,
Your at home running your maxstar 200, (I had one btw), and what brand of rods and what amperage/dig you running??

Orange writing that says 7018 H4R, is Esab Atom Arc, and I'm not fond of it....Buy Excalibur, or Jet LH-7018....

[AKweldshop]

So,
Your at home running your maxstar 200, (I had one btw), and what brand of rods and what amperage/dig you running??

Orange writing that says 7018 H4R, is Esab Atom Arc, and I'm not fond of it....Buy Excalibur, or Jet LH-7018....

So the best I make out is, your running this 7018 H4R on your maxstar 200....

That is Atom arc 7018.

I would set your Maxstar on 135amps, dig 30-50....for flat, vertical about 110....

Just drag it smooth, your flat welds look like a step and pause, you need to drag it smooth....

As far as slag removal, it should peel off great if its run right in the recommended amp range....
100-125amps, for vertical and horizontal, 125-140 for flat and overhead....

[Adam's Got Skills]

Ak i was sayin at home my maxstar an xcaliber rods run get at 120amps/dig at 30....but at school it's a Lincoln invertec 350 wit only 2 dig settings. After watching some videos on the main site 6months ago i finally learned how to tailor my arc to wear it runs best for me. An this Lincoln machine is much more difficult to use....but i can't believe all u can pick for dig is soft/crisp. I call BS! An the Lincoln at school is where Im running this rod....Atom arc. The lws really pushes that rod...an everytime he's tried to sell it to me he starts it with somethin like ...Oh well the atom rods are better cuz they're cheaper! An when I ask how they weld it's always...well they weld ok. Maybe it's good i just need to use it more...but tellin me to buy it just cuz it's cheap... an that it welds "ok" ...Isn't generally gonna sell me anything.

[Adam's Got Skills]

Thanks for the settings tho buddy! I'll try 135 some more beads. Unfortunately I'll just have to go with soft dig on. Thanks again my friend

[AKweldshop]

Ak i was sayin at home my maxstar an xcaliber rods run get at 120amps/dig at 30....but at school it's a Lincoln invertec 350 wit only 2 dig settings. After watching some videos on the main site 6months ago i finally learned how to tailor my arc to wear it runs best for me. An this Lincoln machine is much more difficult to use....but i can't believe all u can pick for dig is soft/crisp. I call BS! An the Lincoln at school is where Im running this rod....Atom arc. The lws really pushes that rod...an everytime he's tried to sell it to me he starts it with somethin like ...Oh well the atom rods are better cuz they're cheaper! An when I ask how they weld it's always...well they weld ok. Maybe it's good i just need to use it more...but tellin me to buy it just cuz it's cheap... an that it welds "ok" ...Isn't generally gonna sell me anything.

Ok,
Your making a grave mistake here....
That Invertec 350 has more than soft and crisp.
It has those two knobs to the right of the mode/process light bar.
One says arc force, the other says hot start...
Say you put it in stick soft, and you set your arc force knob at 0.
That is zero arc force...
Keep it in soft, and turn it to 10.
That's 50% arc force...comparable to your Maxstar.
Now put it in crisp and set it at zero.
Should be 50 or 51% dig.
Leave it in crisp and turn it to 10 arc force...
That 100% dig.

I'm not sure what model yours is but mine (doa), was a factory tweco one...

Yours may be different..
I've had two Invertec 275s, and still have an Invertec 250, and they are laid out the "same" way...

Hope this makes sense...

John

[MinnesotaDave]

Always use the manual when determining what the settings do.
This is an example for the following machine - if your machine is different just look that one up on the Lincoln site.

For an Invertec V-350-pro (CE)

ccsticksoft.GIF (35.98 KiB) Viewed 1996 times

ccstickcrisp1.GIF (34.2 KiB) Viewed 1996 times

[Adam's Got Skills]

AK That totally made sense...An you too Dave!!! That's awesome...I've never used a Lincoln before a couple days ago. I guess I've been sticking to mostly miller machines cuz I've had more experience with them, and own one...so I understand their controls. I asked my teacher how does the Dig work on that machine and he told me I don't ever need to mess with it!!! In my head it was one of those "Say What?" moments...Cuz on my machine IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE big time. I just don't know about these guys sometimes. Like for instance their mig guns are in such need of consumables...The cones are so screwed up scratched/bent so bad spatter gets like welded to it almost and the contact tips look like they've been welded to a work piece and some are warped so bad they aren't even close to straight. An what's funny is they won't give you anything unless it won't weld. An they don't even let us use nozzle dip or anything to keep the cone clean for more than 4/5 mins. I just don't get it sometimes. I'm spending stupid money to go to this place. Don't get me wrong I'm learning here an there, but I guess I expected more from people that "know" this stuff. I feel bad for some of these guys that have never welded. Some guys don't have any welding assignments done, but they aren't getting any guidance to get better either. I guess I'm venting now, but don't you guys find any of that kinda messed up? Is there any reason you wouldn't wanna control dig or just change some consumables once in awhile or at least dip ur nozzle once in awhile??? Other than being cheap....

[AKweldshop]

AK That totally made sense...An you too Dave!!! That's awesome...I've never used a Lincoln before a couple days ago. I guess I've been sticking to mostly miller machines cuz I've had more experience with them, and own one...so I understand their controls. I asked my teacher how does the Dig work on that machine and he told me I don't ever need to mess with it!!! In my head it was one of those "Say What?" moments...Cuz on my machine IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE big time. I just don't know about these guys sometimes. Like for instance their mig guns are in such need of consumables...The cones are so screwed up scratched/bent so bad spatter gets like welded to it almost and the contact tips look like they've been welded to a work piece and some are warped so bad they aren't even close to straight. An what's funny is they won't give you anything unless it won't weld. An they don't even let us use nozzle dip or anything to keep the cone clean for more than 4/5 mins. I just don't get it sometimes. I'm spending stupid money to go to this place. Don't get me wrong I'm learning here an there, but I guess I expected more from people that "know" this stuff. I feel bad for some of these guys that have never welded. Some guys don't have any welding assignments done, but they aren't getting any guidance to get better either. I guess I'm venting now, but don't you guys find any of that kinda messed up? Is there any reason you wouldn't wanna control dig or just change some consumables once in awhile or at least dip ur nozzle once in awhile??? Other than being cheap....

That lincoln will kick your millers butt....

lower dig for 7018, and more for 6010.

Any instructor that don't know anything about arc force shouldn't be teaching others.

[Adam's Got Skills]

Oh get this....I keep hearing about how one of my teachers has a welding business...An he makes it sound like he does nuclear pipe or something....I found out this afternoon that all they do is gates/steel fences!!! I mean hell I've done them....and the ones I did were huge cattle fences/gates for big meat packing plant (Cargill). An even not having nothing more than 2 years in the field trial an error, either do it right or cut it grind it and do it again. Fences aren't very hard at all. I'm kinda wondering about these teachers....I might need to transfer if it doesn't get better...an maybe find some real welders willing to help someone.

[GlenC]

Obviously coming hear is a smart way to go since you are not getting the proper instruction in class. Sucks to get a teacher who is teaching because he doesn't have the experience, skill or knowledge to make it in the field...

Keep asking questions on the forum, trying different settings and study the effects and differences they have.

Have the instructor "DEMONSTRATE" what he is preaching ... it might be interesting...

[WTFH]

The problem with poor instructors in any profession starts with the administration that hired them. And at the college level more than likely the individuals that hired your instructor wouldn't know what end of the electrode to put in the stinger.
I recently had a former student who had been out of school for about 10 years try to get into the fitters. He was pretty much told unofficially we like to get candidates that are furthering their education. Confused he asked me to translate for him. I said go to ***** Community College and take a class in welding and make sure the local knows you are attending (that got in by the way). He called me to tell me how things were going. He said he asked the instructor to do a demo for him and the instructor I DON"T KNOW HOW TO DO IT ....what paert of the class you are teaching and he couldn't do it????????????? I have heard the numerous times about this place and they have some 20 instructors. And the worst part is they are handing out CWI stamped certs like crazy and most wouldn't pass the visual of any respectable CWI. Crazy...

[Otto Nobedder]

This really IS beginning to disturb me.

Is there a sanctioning body that certifies (and INSPECTS) instructors? If there isn't, there certainly should be.

I might have found a mission for my retirement (if I ever reach it...)

Half-ass "wannabe" weldors who couldn't make it in the trade, and "career students" becoming welding instructors after passing a half-assed Vo-Tech program?

This is a scourge on the profession that should be ended, quickly, and with violence if needed...

I'm sure WTFH would agree with me, the half-assers have to GO!

Steve S

[MinnesotaDave]

This really IS beginning to disturb me.

Is there a sanctioning body that certifies (and INSPECTS) instructors? If there isn't, there certainly should be.

I might have found a mission for my retirement (if I ever reach it...)

Half-ass "wannabe" weldors who couldn't make it in the trade, and "career students" becoming welding instructors after passing a half-assed Vo-Tech program?

This is a scourge on the profession that should be ended, quickly, and with violence if needed...

I'm sure WTFH would agree with me, the half-assers have to GO!

Steve S

It's also back in high schools with teachers that can barely weld at all - I've worked with two so far.
Someone at the university level thought that was ok for both levels of teachers apparently.

Barely mig, oxy/fuel, or stick weld flat, and tig is a joke.

[WTFH]

The National Competency Testing Institute in Big Rapids MI. used to have two welding tests, one harder than the other, that instructors could take for college credit. They also have a student level test, my students took the for a few years but the school bowed out because the cost and the state didn't recognize the test or some such thing and opted for a written test.
In the mid 90's upon the advice of my professor at the university I took the harder test. 1 1/2 hour written test, 6" sch 80 5G pipe 6010 out, same pipe size MIG downhill, 6G 2" sch 80 oxy-fuel pipe, really oxy-fuel..., 3/8" 3G w backing 7018 out all bend tested. 3F lap and T aluminum TIG, 2F lap and T 16 Ga. SS TIG, silver solder SS T, flux cored 2F lap that I arc gouged out, flame cutting test was to cut my straps out. The kicker, I had 45 min. each to do the pipes! I obviously took longer but made the time up in the other tests and met the time requirements as it was a timed test too. After passing I became the proctor for the university and administered the easier version four times to welding teachers no one passed.... Schools could at least demand certs. for what the teachers is going to teach. Low starting pay may be a reason schools cannot attract competent teachers but in the end the Admins are worried about $$ and that's about it. And if a program has good enrollment all is good in their eyes.
Having said all of this if I have had success teaching it is because I continually attempt to improve and am my biggest critic and have never believed I know everything. I love to talk to my former students and a few years ago called one of my former students and asked him what his favorite all position cored wire was. I got some and asked him to stop by the shop so I could see how he was running it.

[dirtmidget33]

@ Adams got skills. Now you prolly understand my rant on instructors on your question in the mig forum. Its a sad situation where parents or students spend hard earned money for incompetent professors to teach for the much needed piece of paper to make the HR department happy.

I hope you eventually get a good instructor or can learn off a good welder on the side while in school.

[Wes917]

Around here there are a couple reputable programs at a couple community colleges and of course Lincoln. The cc's that are reputable are related to Lincoln, or have instructors from there part time etc. there are also programs that are just as expensive that are just horrible. It seems everyone wants in on the cash flow, but does not invest in proper instructors to teach the students. It's a sad state really, there seems to be a resurgence lately in pushing kids to the trade, and now these programs want the revenue...but they can't find quality instructors. Might have to do with the pay difference, honestly instructors don't get paid much

[Adam's Got Skills]

Well today's new development is the school ran out of steel for the 2nd time in 2 weeks! So we can't weld till next week. The instructor started cussing out in his class saying it was F'n stupid that we used so much steel! He says we went through 140' in 4hrs, My comment was where'd it go cus there is only 1/3 of a 55 gallon drum full of old welded steel? An he started going on and said that everyone is wasting steel. An I couldn't help but comment...Well why isn't there a teacher that walks around and helping people and checking on what's going on, especially since there are people still completely clueless about pretty much anything welding. An well I got kicked out of class!!! Well I added the comment that I think that's what the people here are paying for. I talked to the other instructor and I told him I was gonna go over to corporate college and maybe I needed to talk to their boss. So he told me not to do that just come back to class next week. What aholes!!! I was very respectful about it, but I'm not just gonna listen to someone complain cuz they don't wanna do their job!!! get outta here man. Again thanks guys for all your help clear up some of this stuff for me. I don't wanna be misinformed I just wanna get better and a more broader range of abilities in the trade that I love doing.

[GlenC]

You may be doing yourself and a lot of potential welders a good thing by getting that instructor the BOOT! By all means go to the school administration and let them know you are not getting proper instruction and running short of class materials... Maybe the instructor is misappropriating money and or materials...

[79jasper]

Exactly what Glen said.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

[dirtmidget33]

Your paying to learn a skill if the materials are not there what are you paying for. I can see them planning on so much amount of material per student per day and maybe limiting how much you get per day, but to me you should be welding almost every day. Some class time going over procedures followed by certain excersizes to learn and practice what the lecture was about
about.
I agree with Glenc

[Otto Nobedder]

What follows is the text of a reply to a private message I received. I think it bears sharing:

"Adam's got serious grounds for a "breach of contract" lawsuit with that school for failure to perform as promised. The instructor's rant about wasted steel is pure bullshit. I got 12 practice welds out of 24 inches of pipe, by cutting out a 1/2" section centered on each practice weld (giving me a small, clearly open section of pipe with my weld in the middle) and prepping the freshly exposed ends for the next practice weld.

I'm brewing an idea for these cases... Perhaps involving Lincoln Electric, as I have a contact there. I'd like to see a "teacher's challenge", where certified professions come to the school and challenge the instructors to take the tests they're teaching. Done right, a school with good scores would score equipment and recommendation from the challenging company. A school with a "fail" would be challenged to improve it's skills (perhaps with the challenger offering discount "refresher" courses) so there's a database of "recommended" schools and instructors.

This whole issue is going to grow, as the U.S. is beginning once again to understand the value of the trades for the construction and maintenance of, well, every damn thing."

Steve S

[MinnesotaDave]

What follows is the text of a reply to a private message I received. I think it bears sharing:

"Adam's got serious grounds for a "breach of contract" lawsuit with that school for failure to perform as promised. The instructor's rant about wasted steel is pure bullshit. I got 12 practice welds out of 24 inches of pipe, by cutting out a 1/2" section centered on each practice weld (giving me a small, clearly open section of pipe with my weld in the middle) and prepping the freshly exposed ends for the next practice weld.

I'm brewing an idea for these cases... Perhaps involving Lincoln Electric, as I have a contact there. I'd like to see a "teacher's challenge", where certified professions come to the school and challenge the instructors to take the tests they're teaching. Done right, a school with good scores would score equipment and recommendation from the challenging company. A school with a "fail" would be challenged to improve it's skills (perhaps with the challenger offering discount "refresher" courses) so there's a database of "recommended" schools and instructors.

This whole issue is going to grow, as the U.S. is beginning once again to understand the value of the trades for the construction and maintenance of, well, every damn thing."

Steve S

Man...now that is some seriously good planning right there!
I know not one high school welding teacher I've worked with in the last 8 years could pass even a 3g plate test.

If I were challenged for anything I do, I'd ask him to go first so I could watch
Is that cheating? Lol