I'm still new at this but I was looking for suggestions on how to clean up this type of weld and make it look even better?
This particular tube is mild steel 1" 0.065 wall. Welded at 55amp, 1/16" 2% lant tungsten.
I experimented a little with pulsing with the foot pedal and I seemed to have a little better puddle control.
My question is how do people like zank get rid of those ripples and create that regularly spaced stack look. Is it simply a matter of being more steady with the torch hand?? Seat time, I know.
On a related note, I thought Jody's latest tig welding video is great and gave me some valuable info regarding how to twist the torch when doing this. It's his combination of close up videos and overview shots that really are invaluable. Absolutely wonderful.
Just an example of one I did on some .125" plate to 1" tube weld
Looking good so far! The trick to getting the smooth look is running hotter and faster. When most people start on tubing, I think the tendency is to run colder to avoid blowing a hole. This makes the bead difficult to keep at a constant width and height.
When I start a bead, I light up and ease into it applying more pedal to get the puddle going. I add filler until I get the width bead I want. Then I start pushing the puddle. I want that puddle to be very fluid so that the toes are blending in nicely to the tube. Once I start pushing that fluid puddle, I start dabbing filler. Depending on where I am on the joint, I push more or less filler. A tubing joint is like a transition from a T joint to a lap joint. The T area needs for filler to keep that puddle width constant. On the lap side, I might barely dab. I'm always watching the width and the toes of the puddle. I barely pause on the T areas when I'm adding filler. I try not to pause at all on the lap areas and just keep it running. So you have to be comfortable. The tig finger rules for tube welding.
I hope this helps a bit. Keep the questions coming!
Zank is far beyond my skill set right now but I will add that every wiggle of the torch will leave a ripple. So you hit the nail on the head in my opinion about having a steady torch hand.
Also I'm guessing that if you hadn't brushed the welds afterwards we would have seen discoloration extending quite a ways away from the welds. If this was the case I would suspect that is from welding too cold. Jody has done a great video on how welding too cold can put too much heat into the part verses welding hotter with a faster travel speed.
It's strange, I feel I'm always playing catch up on the "lap" edges of the weld. The puddle wants to get out of control. Just thinking out loud, perhaps that's a coping issue. I might have to really pay attention avoiding knife edging the cut tube.
But even when I have the heat "right," I can't get rid of those ripples. They aren't too noticeable to the naked eye but look pretty bad in pics.
The discoloration might have to do with the fact that I'm welding on both sides of the tube at times. But point taken. Hotter and faster might mean less heat input. These tube segments I cut are only 3" long so they heat soak pretty fast.
I'm hoping more seat time is the answer but I wanted to best use the time I spend practicing. Thanks.
Seat time is a huge help when you have the concept, and the basics of welding down.
While I'm still not where I want to be skill wise, I've come a long way with just practice. Thankfully I don't have any pictures of my first welds, but with practice I've got to a point where I will make sure my welds are visible in my projects.
jcw wrote:It's strange, I feel I'm always playing catch up on the "lap" edges of the weld. The puddle wants to get out of control. Just thinking out loud, perhaps that's a coping issue. I might have to really pay attention avoiding knife edging the cut tube.
But even when I have the heat "right," I can't get rid of those ripples. They aren't too noticeable to the naked eye but look pretty bad in pics.
The discoloration might have to do with the fact that I'm welding on both sides of the tube at times. But point taken. Hotter and faster might mean less heat input. These tube segments I cut are only 3" long so they heat soak pretty fast.
I'm hoping more seat time is the answer but I wanted to best use the time I spend practicing. Thanks.
jcw, I tell this and sell this, rinse, and repeat....
If you've put in a solid weld you're confident in, but you want better cosmetics, WASH it!
With no additional filler, go over the entire weld with enough current to melt the surface, put both hands on the torch, and weave that li'l sumbitch back and forth around the whole weld. It'll even out the high/low spots, and since you're not focusing on feeding rod, you can focus on evening the toes. Cheating? Maybe, maybe not. It's up to you.
jcw,
You mentioned that you even tried to pulse with the pedal to help with puddle control, try practicing without using the pedal at all. Set the amps on the machine and just use the pedal for your HF start and then you'll have to use travel speed and a consistant amout of filler wire to keep the weld bead even. If you practice like that you'll have to learn to read the puddle. A certain amount of amps are required to melt a certain amount of metal so when you add filler rod each individual puddle takes only as much filler as it can melt, then you progress in small increments and repeat. If you can get good at this, you'll have no problems when you go back to the pedal.
I learned on a scratch start rig and still weld with one almost everyday and you are forced to adjust your travel speed and the amount of filler you add. Now if I could only get my good vision back I'd be fine.
jcw wrote:It's strange, I feel I'm always playing catch up on the "lap" edges of the weld. The puddle wants to get out of control. Just thinking out loud, perhaps that's a coping issue. I might have to really pay attention avoiding knife edging the cut tube.
But even when I have the heat "right," I can't get rid of those ripples. They aren't too noticeable to the naked eye but look pretty bad in pics.
The discoloration might have to do with the fact that I'm welding on both sides of the tube at times. But point taken. Hotter and faster might mean less heat input. These tube segments I cut are only 3" long so they heat soak pretty fast.
I'm hoping more seat time is the answer but I wanted to best use the time I spend practicing. Thanks.
I second what Steve said. I have a guy that I work with. He can't lay a bead worth squat. Looks like JB Weld put on with a popsicle stick! Then he goes back over and washes it. Not my way to do it! He has to do it because he is too lazy to get a good fit-up on his joints. Even if you do have a good fit-up, your weld may not look like you want it too.
There is no shame in going back over a weld to make it look better. If your machine has pulse, that is an excellent way to wash a weld!
I've read of bike builders some with very good reputaions making two passes on their welds. Zank I'm sure can fill us in more on that.
I tried turning up the amps. I went from 55 to 65. I swear that the everlast welders run a little hot.
at 65 amps, i was basically able to basically push the puddle very quickly along and lay the wire down creating a nice looking bead with very little of the wiggles and ripples. No dimes, but at least no ripples. i only got to try this on one joint so i'll keep practicing and post pics of the results.
65amps, I'm basically pushing the wire .040" in constantly to keep the puddle controlled and moving pretty quick. Whole weld done in about 1 minute. Felt like it was mig with two hands.
No brushing, the discoloration gets washed out with the flash.
It's not your stack of dimes... Damn how do they do it???
I tried second pass on some old ones lying around, and that is a skill in and of itself. All of mine looked uglier than the first. LOL. practice...
[quote="jcw"]65amps, I'm basically pushing the wire .040" in constantly to keep the puddle controlled and moving pretty quick. Whole weld done in about 1 minute. Felt like it was mig with two hands.
No brushing, the discoloration gets washed out with the flash.
It's not your stack of dimes... Damn how do they do it???
I'd say try larger filler, if you don't have any bigger, bend a piece in half, chuck it up in a drill and give it a twist. Dab, and watch the puddle "wet out", basically watch puddle sink into the base metal and flatten out, dip, and repeat.
Dear Jcw, I have the same problem with my welding appearance and I have noticed this , when i use 3mm welding rod it seems
I achieve good appearance , while with 2.4mm i cannot . It is like an equation all bits must be in tune , right tungsten angle , right
frequency and rod thickness etc.Some like Zanc and Jody has found the recipe the rest follow not all are artists .I weld well always but the appearance it is not as it should . I remember a case where i weld a broken bit which was welded twice before from someone
else and it failed , i weld the same bit and it is in service for 3 years now . I make very good penetration so the metal gets
hot puddle boils all impurities out , appearance comes second . Now i try to do better appearance too.I have already asked zank about the settings he uses. Like frequency and if he uses pulse ( not answered yet ). Keep trying...I think there is a a distance between artistic welding like the ones i have seen in pedal bike's frames and regular welding.
Esenti
Otto Nobedder wrote:
jcw, I tell this and sell this, rinse, and repeat....
If you've put in a solid weld you're confident in, but you want better cosmetics, WASH it!
With no additional filler, go over the entire weld with enough current to melt the surface, put both hands on the torch, and weave that li'l sumbitch back and forth around the whole weld. It'll even out the high/low spots, and since you're not focusing on feeding rod, you can focus on evening the toes. Cheating? Maybe, maybe not. It's up to you.
Steve S
Here's after a little more practice. A little two-handed freehand weaving wash. Hardly worth taking a picture of, but I'm happy with it.
To the naked eye, looks good. Only thing is I'm afraid I'm inputing too much heat into the tube particularly if I do it to a motorcycle frame. But, nice tool/skill to have.
jcw wrote:
Here's after a little more practice. A little two-handed freehand weaving wash. Hardly worth taking a picture of, but I'm happy with it.
To the naked eye, looks good. Only thing is I'm afraid I'm inputing too much heat into the tube particularly if I do it to a motorcycle frame. But, nice tool/skill to have.
A comment... You've spread the original metal a bit too wide in this case, causing a bit of undercut in the "up" part of the weld. The goal of a wash is to be ONLY hot enough to remelt the surface, and gently fill in any previous undercut, not to spread the weld out. The weave you've done does improve the cosmetics of the weld, but you must be careful not to draw down metal from above, undercutting the upper surface.
Look up Thor Racing on Youtube, so you can see the control arm welding. The welder uses a foot-pedal to modulate the "pulse" and get the puddle to the desired characteristics.
Hmmm. I'd like to know if Zank pulses with the foot to get those results.
Seems that you don't pulse to get that result on a straight weld, doing it on a tube weld is like cheating. But I am an ignorant newb. Lol.
Not even all of ztfab tube welds look like Zank's. not at all saying they were inferior, but I wonder if stacked dimes on the tube welds is ????
At this point, I'm thinking that my best welds on flat is when I weld hot, quickly and smoothly and so I'm thinking I'm just not welding hot, quickly and/or smoothly enough.
Practice, practice.
If I figure it out, I'll post up.
I feel like I'm getting close to nailing it... undercut pretty bad. at least the right half was ok.
And another shot at washing the weld
It seems like really purposeful forward movements and dips help. That implies that you are welding hot enough that a quick push forward and the new bit of metal liquefies immediately. freeze the puddle with rod then onto the next bit. Otherwise not hot enough and you end up with a cold weld.
you're still using 1mm filler rod, right? If so, ditch it already. You need more filler. Not that I can do any better, but I'm pretty sure you really need to step up to 1.6mm/ 1/16" filler . Or feed in more wire. The beads are a bit concave, so they're under just a slight bit of inward-directed tension. I like the bead in the picture you posted on Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:24 pm better, even though it doesn't have a stacked look. The bead looks more plump with better reinforcement.
Agreed. Using thicker filler will give you more bang for each dip. I see nothing wrong with your technique just experiment with different filler sizes and dipping rate, amounts per dip and you'll be laughing.
zank wrote:Ha. Paul (ztfab) can weld me under the table. He can do it all.
I agree to try other filler diameters. Dude, you are getting it quick! Keep going!
Totally not comparing skill sets. I don't want to piss him off.
Oscar wrote:you're still using 1mm filler rod, right? If so, ditch it already. You need more filler. Not that I can do any better, but I'm pretty sure you really need to step up to 1.6mm/ 1/16" filler . Or feed in more wire. The beads are a bit concave, so they're under just a slight bit of inward-directed tension. I like the bead in the picture you posted on Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:24 pm better, even though it doesn't have a stacked look. The bead looks more plump with better reinforcement.
Yeah. it was late and I didn't really look at the whole bead just the bead spacing. This AM it looks pretty bad overall.
I tried the 1/16" rod previously and it would chill the puddle too much and the rod would occasionally stick. But now with more heat, I'll try it again. That joint had a rather bad fit up as well.
weldin mike 27 wrote:Agreed. Using thicker filler will give you more bang for each dip. I see nothing wrong with your technique just experiment with different filler sizes and dipping rate, amounts per dip and you'll be laughing.
. Or feed in more wire. The beads are a bit concave, so they're under just a slight bit of inward-directed tension. I like the bead in the picture you posted on Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:24 pm better, even though it doesn't have a stacked look. The bead looks more plump with better reinforcement.
