[sru_tx]

So aluminum is really getting my goat. I've practice running stringer beads a LOT and they look pretty decent. I decided to start on joints and did a small project using square tubing and angle (6061) not supporting much weight. I dip way too often but am getting better.

My problem: Usually when I dip I change tungstens, SS wire brush the site of the offense, and start again. That has worked on my bead practice; however, occasionally it seems that afterwards I just can't get a puddle going or it has some sort of "skin" over it and things just blob, melt through, go grainy, or worst case it turn black or gray, ball up, and absolutely nothing will stick.

What to do? Do I need to grind away to base metal to remove all corrupted weld? Throw it away and start over (in steel )

BTW, after I accumulate 5 dipped tungstens I chuck them in a drill and use a sanding disk in my angle grinder to get down to bare shiny tungsten, then grind a point with a diamond disk in angle grinder.

Specifics:
1/8" thick angle and sq. tube - 6061 Aluminum, 4046 rod (1/16" or 3/32")
AHP 200X machine. AC. 200Hz, 35-45% balance (65%-55% in Millerese), foot pedal with max current 130A
3/32" - 2% lanthanated tungsten


any suggestions appreciated. thanks.
steve

[DLewis0289]

hmmmmm, the re-start problem sounds like not enough heat and/or patience. For a T joint set your tungsten length so you can put your cup against the piece as a guide/protector and slide or baby walk. (you can tilt torch back a little to see) And your tungsten grinding procedure is putting rings in the wrong direction if I understand you right, grind with the tungsten not around the tungsten.

PS...Make sure you are wearing safety glasses when you have that tungsten in the drill chuck, that stuff is so hard it will snap at a moments notice with pressure. It's like hot slag, it will hit you in one of two places, the eye or the lip.

[MinnesotaDave]

More amps. Use enough amps to start a puddle in 3 seconds or less - then reduce with the pedal as needed.

I would set your machine about 175 amps, puddle quick and then back off a little.

Other problem - never practice on a project. Never.

To paraphrase another welder: "a hobbyist practices until they get it right, a pro practices until they can't get it wrong."

[sru_tx]

I was going a bit stir crazy doing beads and connecting square tubing. I know I jumped the gun but the project was small, holding very little weight (racing kayaks), and no one would see. With six nearly identical pieces I got the change to practice the same joints multiple times.

BTW Im using a 17 torch with a stubby lens and #6 cup. I normally run about 12cfh on steel. after having problems I upped the flow to 17-20 cfh and found I had fewer issues although I still had some.

In response to grinding, I am grinding the points so that the grinding lines are along the point, not swirled or around the point.

I will try upping the amps to puddle quicker.

thanks.

[motox]

photos of your work can be helpful.
many eyes can help spot different issues...

[sru_tx]

here are some pics. please avert your eyes as necessary. not recommended for the squeamish.

rollers slip over 5/8" dia. tubing. the 5/8" slips into short 3/4" diameter, 0.0625" wall tubing pieces that are welded to 1.5" /0.125" wall square tubing.

The first pics are of the picture of the finished roller rack.

Finished roller rack

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Under deck and stairs. One boat stowed.

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bad welds. you've been warned.

bad weld

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bad weld at base

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I was so embarrassed that I chopped off the round tubes, ground the surface flat and welded on a couple new pieces. Much better this time around. I used 3/32" filler instead of the 1/16". I used a little more stickout and concentrated on starting the puddle on the flat which avoided blowing through the thin tubing. with such a small diameter (0.75"), I could only get about two filler dabs per position. I still dipped my tungsten but did not have the issues that I did yesterday. Don't know exactly why. Yes the welds are full of pepper and still look bad, i'm satisfied with them for now.

new pieces. better welds.

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brushed off weld

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[exnailpounder]

The bottom weld is a little better but that peppering is a gas issue. Where that small tubing is joining that square tube I think you might be losing gas coverage. You need to make some sort of dam to hold gas in around the weld area. Or you might have bad gas. As was mentioned above, you need enough amps to get a puddle within 3 seconds or less, I prefer less especially with so little metal around the weld area. Not enough amps is just as bad as too many especially with aluminum so you are going to have to get good on that pedal. As Jody says, "aluminum isn't hard, it's just different". Feel good in the knowledge that your welds are every bit as good as the welds I see on EZGO golf carts that I fix all the time ....Oh and stop dipping your tungsten

[sru_tx]

thanks exnailpounder. I think I'm coming in pretty hot with the current and backing off. Occasionally the bead looks pretty decent! (even a blind squirrel finds nuts now and then)

Towards the end of my session yesterday, I upped the gas flow yesterday (from 12 to 20 cfh) and I think my welds got better. It was hard to tell as I was tired and dipping a lot more. I'm sure my neighbors heard my cussing at every dip Today I ran about 17-18cfh of argon and switched hands. Things fell into place.

Besides upping the flow, would a larger cup help for those exposed joints?

Understanding where that peppering comes from really helps. I'll probably do some more joint practice this week but will make easier joints (lap, T, corner).

One last question... for now.
Once I have peppered welds, is there a way to "fix" that weld? I assume impurities will keep bubbling to the top if I simply grind the surface of a peppered weld and try to weld over it. Does the entire bad weld have to go?

learning as I go. thanks to all for the guidance.

steve

[exnailpounder]

A larger cup might help but the problem is, and you might experience it on an outside corner weld is the gas gets split and draws in air so it's common to build some sort of makeshift dam to keep the gas around the weld. You may be experiencing something similar as your gas goes over the edge of your metal and might be creating a vortex and drawing in air. Another reason for peppering is when your bottle pressure gets low, moisture begins to appear in your gas. I had this problem recently but I don't think thats your problem. Too much gas flow might cause air to be drawn in too. IMO a peppered weld should only be ground out and replaced if it is a critical weld but a contaminated weld isn't the end of the world for your project other than being unsightly. You can see this peppering happen as you weld so stop when you see it and try to figure out the cause before peppering up the whole bead. You will see the difference in good gas coverage when you do filet welds. Gas coverage is a huge deal and very important to weld quality and integrity and its as important as proper welding techniques. Sometimes you have to get creative to build a dam to hold in gas. Something as simple as foil tape might work in some circumstances but the adhesive may cause trouble so you need to be crafty. It's all part of the learning curve so relax and enjoy the ride and watch as many of Jody's videos as you can. He is very thorough. Have fun!

PS...you will become an expert tungsten grinder before you become an expert tig welder...ask anybody

[thespian]

If you are in an open garage you might want to set up some kind of block to keep a breeze from blowing your gas away, it doesn't take much.

[MinnesotaDave]

Work on straight t joints until you get it right.

Round tube joints are deceptively difficult. The torch angle must be adjusted constantly as you progress.

Show some straight t joints and start learning from there.

[Diesel]

Gas lense and jumbo cup. I go as big as I can unless in a tight spot then I'll downsize or drop to my mini rig. For the gas easiest thing is to just set up a purge if you can't, id make a little dam or something and limit how far I go. You also need to let the puddle flow. If they look blobby and cooked, more amps and move faster. I think of aluminum as caramel. Keep the filler away from the arc and jab it. As for doing round stock, eh id say go ahead. It's not entirely picky but if it won't fuse don't jump and keep adding filler, play with your torch. And keep that dang thing out of your puddle! It has to be close but not that close. Prop it up with your pinky and rotate with your wrist. Or shorten your tungsten so you can't dip it. And if you do, in gonna get crap for this, but the sharpening doesn't matter. At least I don't see a difference. If it's sharp I'll use it. I've even used some not so sharp ones in a pinch. Long as they heat the metal and the arc is focused enough for me.

[Sandow]

In response to grinding, I am grinding the points so that the grinding lines are along the point, not swirled or around the point.

You might want to play with grinding a flat at the end of your tungsten or grinding to a pretty blunt point. Heat penetration is shallow and wide with a sharp point and can work against you. You'll give up some arc stability but at the amp range you are using that shouldn't be a big deal.

-Sandow

[MinnesotaDave]

In response to grinding, I am grinding the points so that the grinding lines are along the point, not swirled or around the point.

You might want to play with grinding a flat at the end of your tungsten or grinding to a pretty blunt point. Heat penetration is shallow and wide with a sharp point and can work against you. You'll give up some arc stability but at the amp range you are using that shouldn't be a big deal.

-Sandow

I do the same thing, different points for different applications.

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[sru_tx]

Wow! thanks for the suggestions. If I can get the time today/week and good weather, I will cut some 1/8" plate strips and practice my basic joints. I'll post followup pics to see if I learned anything.

[sru_tx]

So I managed to get some practice in on easier joints (T joint and outside corner) and configurations to prop. Practiced with either hand.
20cfh argon. 145A foot pedal. 35% balance, some welds at 250Hz and others at 120Hz. Some 3/32" filler and some 1/16".

10 gauge Aluminum plate. Started to get a good feel for the puddle, the pedal, and the "wetting" of the joint. I only dipped my tungsten once! I realize my filler timing isn't even but it's getting better.

Outside corner (it's hard to tell from photo, but the welds are slightly convex)

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T-joint (slightly concave weld but no undercutting of base metal)

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[GreinTime]

So I managed to get some practice in on easier joints (T joint and outside corner) and configurations to prop. Practiced with either hand.
20cfh argon. 145A foot pedal. 35% balance, some welds at 250Hz and others at 120Hz. Some 3/32" filler and some 1/16".

10 gauge Aluminum plate. Started to get a good feel for the puddle, the pedal, and the "wetting" of the joint. I only dipped my tungsten once! I realize my filler timing isn't even but it's getting better.

Outside corner (it's hard to tell from photo, but the welds are slightly convex)

Brotherman you're just wasting argon at 20cfh with a #6 cup. Aluminum is a lot less reactive than steel and stainless. Turn it down to 10-12. Too much flow can cause problems with inducing atmosphere into the argon stream because it rolls/tumbles/swirls out of the cup. I have a #4 quartz cup that I weld aluminum with, as well as #4 and #6 alumina (pink) cups as well with regular collet bodies. You'd never catch me welding steel with any of then, but I will use them on Aluminum every time.

Gas lenses get ruined by aluminum more so than other metals when first starting out because the aluminum tends to do funky shit on the tungsten when you dip. I typically recommend 12-15cfh for most gas lenses up to #8, and then 15-20 after that. I also have all of the FurickCup Pyrex cups, and the #12/#16 Mike recommends welding at 25-30cfh due to how big they are and the screen he has in the cup for the diffuser. I also have a #12 TiCup from SPW, and he recommends 25cfh as well.

In summary, you want to use the bare minimum shielding gas coverage for the application so that you're not wasting argon. On Aluminum, set your post flow long enough that the tungsten doesn't turn colors. On steel/stainless set it long enough that the metal doesn't discolor when complete.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[DLewis0289]

Ok I had a slow day today so I went out to make this video and damn I-phone gave me a 100000000MB feature film so I just captured some shots from it.......

You new guys that are wrestling with this aluminum stuff, should I be running 20 CFH or 25 CFH? Filler rod 3/32 or 1/8", I don't think I am getting it clean enough, what filler do I need for this type aluminum, I need a $100 gas lense....STOP IT!

It's like learning chord shapes on a guitar...muscle memory, technique and a lot of practice. When you become Eddie VanHalen you can start tweaking your amp.

Get the Miller app for your phone.......use those settings period, a little hot, great, it will also help you with your filler hand feed practice.

Footpedal.....use it for a on-off switch, when you get ready to light up, jam it to the floor and leave it there......unless you are welding the old pop can trick then I understand.

Pick something like 1/4" x 2 FB, cheap and easy, good edge practice and you can make boxes.

I have kids practice after work every night, so the practice TIG booth is usually a disaster.

I went out there and said whatever I find, I am going to use it.

This is doing EVERYTHING wrong, you would never do this for real, quit focusing on the bells and whistles and practice, practice, practice technique.

Don't get your feelings hurt, I care enough about the trade I want to see you succeed hobby or pro but I am not going to hand out hugs when you foul your tungsten.

Looks about normal, even have a broken cup. Going to roll with it.

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Not going to sharpen tungsten, break it off square with linesman pliers.

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Way to hot for this size tungsten and balance set for steel.

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Piece out of trash with band saw cutting lubricant all over it.

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Good grief no wonder AirGas loves me, 35 CFH

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Pass 1

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Turned argon down to 20 CFH for square tube

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Finally decided to fix tungsten on last two passes, but same dirty material and horrible machine settings.

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[sru_tx]

feelings not hurt. thanks!

As someone once said, "It's not about the bike"... (what he didn't say was that it's all about the drugs and how to cheat but that's a different story) Good to know that the material can be very forgiving given some basic skills.

BTW, all the data of cfh, settings, etc. I provided were to pre-empt the response of "what's your settings?".

I get it. Seat time. working on it.

[DLewis0289]

Lol I'm not worried about you at all, I know you are going to get it. Anyone that has mastered Calc 1 and 2 plus differential equations has the drive to succeed. Your welds are improving in leaps and bounds by the day.

I didn't want you wasting your time worrying about 20 or 25 CFH of shield at this point in the game.

[exnailpounder]

Your getting it. Now it's just about practice. Don't worry about using both hands right now, as was stated above , get your muscle memory working good and it will all flow from there. I would suggest you switch over to steel and get your techniques down before moving on to aluminum but you did pretty good. Take advantage by getting in the perfect position , you will be challenged later by having to hold your pedal between your legs like a thighmaster or kneeling on it so while your learning, set yourself up so the weld is easy. And as Sam suggested, turn down your gas flow, you're wasting it. Use just enough post flow to keep your tungsten pretty. Number 1...don't try to re-invent the wheel.

[sru_tx]

The reason I had the gas flow up was I noticed some slight peppering in my weld. Based on previous posts, I turned up the gas, maybe too much, but the welds cleaned up. I'll dial it back until I have "just enough" gas flow. While not ambidextrous, there are lots of things where I switch hands, it's good for the brain. I have now built two carts (MIG, TIG), welding/cutting table, and gates, my steel is ok (nothing has fallen off yet!).

Speaking of props, boy howdy I can weld soooo much better I am when propped comfortably. I think I might built a propping stand

DLewis, calc and diff eq was in a galaxy far far away. I got a chuckle out of you doing everything wrong and still getting nice looking welds, but if you really want to impress I'd like to see your welds using a 8d common nail head in your torch, a coat hanger as filler, and farting as your shielding gas.... THEN I'd be impressed.

PS: I don't want to sound defensive rather I'm just trying to explain my thought process. I'm fine with a response that starts "Well you might THINK that but you'd be wrong".

[DLewis0289]

My wife said if that is possible for my farts to be used as shield gas she is cancelling the Airgas account today. And I was in the same Diffy Q galaxy. UMR Class of 84

[Otto Nobedder]

... UMR Class of 84

University of Missouri, Rolla?

Steve S

[DLewis0289]

That's what it was called back then, I am permanently stained green.

Been to all the thriving Metropolis' in Missouri, Washington, the booming town of Hermann (nice winery though) Dad's company provided in service pipe work, so if there is a pipeline there, I have probably been there. Actually I think it was outside of Hermann I did my first anhydrous hot tap in the summer between my junior and senior year of high school. "Don't worry kid, the dispatcher is gonna lower the pressure to 800 psig"